Taking Subutex And Percocet Together (Page 17)
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My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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TASH, DJTRU: You are both misinformed. MAYBE you were on a small dose of Subutex and pain meds, MAYBE. But no, you can't just "mix Subutex and pain meds". Where are you getting your information? Subutex is not what they "give people who are still on pain meds"....what would even be the point of that? When starting Suboxone OR Subutex, you need to be completely clean from all other opioids. Buprenorphine itself IS a "blocker", for lack of any of you using the proper terms. Go take some opioids, then take a couple Subutex, then get back to me. Now as I said, if you are on a fairly small dose of both; first, these meds will leave your body quicker if on a lower dose, and second, Subutex not having the Naloxone will be less likely to throw you into complete and total precips, again if taking a small amount of Subutex and/or pain meds. But BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF is not a "typical agonist opioid", and is in fact an opioid ANTAGONIST, which have such a major binding affinity for your opioid receptors, it will completely and totally knock any and all agonist opioids off of said receptors and throw you into a s*** show. You don't have to believe me, it is just a FACT. It's not about the "blocker" (naloxone), it's about the Bupe ITSELF. The main reason naloxone is even in Suboxone is to keep people from taking it intravenously. All you *****s telling everyone that its ok to use Bupe with opioids are going to throw someone into a BAD RATTLE. But I suppose if anyone is stupid enough to believe you people, then that's on them.

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Thanks kkh addiction is a beast and we are warriors to survive I do know some who request pill form or the subutex so they can use and you are so right it will be a very hard lesson learned for them the bupe its self will throw the precips on ya .I wasn't always so emotional on this subject but this is a vwry serious thing unfortunately many who dont know about addiction except what they read or perceive on their own wont understand until it rears its ugly head close to home I wouldnt with that on anyone but bottom line approximate wait time is 48 hours before you can use ANY opiate / pharmaceutical or street form after ANY bupe based drug. But even then I wouldnt recomend it everyones metabolism is different .. so nice talking with someone who takes this serios to n thank you for the good thoughts. God bless

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JAMES: Yes, it may not be as extreme with Subutex as with Suboxone because of the Naloxone not being in the Subutex (although it was pretty extreme for me) but it is more about the binding affinity of the Bupe than the Naloxone anyway. I just get so sick of seeing people who have no clue, on here talking about "you are fine without the Nalxone" etc. NO, no you are not. Or saying that if a person wants Subutex rather than Suboxone, it is only because they want to "keep using". You cant keep using with Subutex; believe me, I tried.

I am sorry your child is having trouble. I wouldn't wish this life on anyone. And as you said, it is truly a shame that not all people on ORTs take it completely seriously. But that, unfortunately, is the nature of the beast with addiction, ESPECIALLY opioid addiction, since it is so physical. Good luck to you and your child.

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Kkh absolutely either can put you in withdrawal you have a little more leway with the subutex but like you I dont recommend taking anything with either im on suboxone now but I have a grown child who is on every and I mean every WAIT LIST within a 100 mile radius to get help with her addiction. it kills me when I hear people asking how long after they take their suboxone or subutex they have to wait to take their percs or opana. guys if your getting it legit and still using with no inclination to stop and are just using it to fill in the sicks or to fund your use step aside and let someone in who is trying to get a grip on life. I get so upset over this. I sit in my drs office and hear other patients talking and swapping info, making deals n such. those dont deserve a spot in a program. trying not to be judgemental but I know many addicts, very few of which are happy to be that way and we all make bad choices addicts or not but seem there's many out there who take up space in these clinics and ruin things for serious ones who seek help.. sorry bout the rant kkh. I do not disagree with you at all, you are absolutely correct.. it just makes no sense to me to mix any type of opiate with suboxone, subutex, or zubsolv (I think that's how its spelled) bupe is for recovery. And in some cases chronic pain conditions. God bless n lets hope the world opens its eyes and better accepts and understands this horrible disease of addiction.

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JAMES: You CAN'T "take whatever" with Subutex but not Suboxone. Subutex will throw you into precipitated withdrawals, just like Suboxone will. The buprenorphine itself is the problem (the active opioid ingredient in both Subutex and Subuxone). The binding affinity of the buprenorphine will knock any and all opioids off of your receptors, whether the Naloxone is in there or not. So if you want to risk going into a really bad rattle, don't believe me. Anyone who is saying you can take opioids and Subutex together is probably on a very low dose of both, or doesn't know what they are talking about The Naloxone is in Suboxone to keep people from taking it intravenously. I PERSONALLY went into precipitated withdrawals when taking Subutex too close to opiates. NOT SUBOXONE, SUBUTEX!! I NEVER want that to happen again!

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No offense to anyone but I just dont see the reasoning behind taking an opiate with either of these key words are USED FOR GETTING OFF OPIOIDS seems to not make sense naloxone or not n yes theoretically you can take what ever with the subutex and not with suboxone but WHY???? If your in a program that prescribes one of these and your taking opiates then please connsider stepping aside till your READY and make room someone who is seeing how our great caring government only alows drs to treat 100 patients at a time theirs many who would not even consider mixing them god bless n I apologize for sounding so abrupt its a touchy subject thanks all

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You can take your pain meds with the subutex without going into withdraws..subutex is what they give people who are still withdrawing from ops and still have the drug in their system because it's safe .don't take them with suboxone. I've been prescribed both ( at different times) for years and have mixed pain meds with the subutex. A lot of people are misinformed. The only thing about mixing the two (subutex and percs.) is that you'll have to take more percs. to feel anything. Hope this helps someone.

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DJTRU: And the only reason the "blocker" is in there is to stop people from injecting the buprenorphine. Anyone who thinks a person can "still use opioids" while on Subutex is sadly misinformed.

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Thank you!!!! Finally someone with the correct info.... Subutex does not have a blocker Suboxone does End of story...

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ZACH: I have been on opioids for 30 plus years. I am not easily offended! No problem whatsoever.

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kkh: I hope you weren't offended by my previous post. That wasn't my intention. Personally, I think we need more people like you posting information on here so the less knowledgeable readers can receive honest and accurate answers. Maybe I was mistaken when I thought you were posting info in an effort to deter people from using. I apologize for any miscommunication.

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ZACH: I can only speak for myself, but I am on here to help people from my own knowledge and experience and that's it, really. As a 30 year+ opioid addict, I have been through a LOT, as well as having been premed, subscribing to medical journals, and regularly researching many different medical/scientific subjects. And I am certainly no one to judge a person choices. Nothing I post on here is ever purposely misleading, and whether a person is using something legally or illegally.....this is really not my business. I might bust your chops a little :) but in no way would I try to talk anyone into or out of their choices, as long as the person is being safe. If I can help, I will.

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I see what you mean and I applaud you for having a big heart and showing concern for other addicts, but we come here looking for answers and only answers. I doubt you would, but it would be wrong to mislead them in an effort to deter them from using their drug of choice. There are other platforms for that. But like I said, I know it comes from a good place in your heart.

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ME: I've done PLENTY of research, as well as having been on Subutex. (that's actually how it's spelled) Sure you CAN take them together, but you won't like the results. Maybe if you take a TINY amount of each, really far apart. MAYBE. So you can shove your attitude.

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ME: I've done PLENTY of research, as well as having been on Subutex. (that's actually how it's spelled) Sure you CAN take them together, but you won't like the results.

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You can take perc with Subtext. Do your research before you comment

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NANAROBIN67: I am completely shocked that a DOCTOR would do this! Give buprenorphine together with a full-agonist opioid! How incompetent can one be?? Are they TRYING to throw this person into precipitated withdrawals? I have had them, and the are HORRIFIC! Not to mention the fact that yes, the Percocet is not going to be all that effective after taking bupe. This blows my mind. If I was this person, I would get another doctor as soon as humanly possible!!

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I agree, i cant believe a doctor is giving buprenorphine with percocet...because just back in the fall, i know that bup. wasn't approved by FDA etc. for pain management...even though for years its been given for pain in other countries. unless the dr is telling them its for pain but documenting otherwise, even so, it would be harder to explain why their giving perc. also..just because a med is approved, drs must chart why its given and they must not say its for anything besides the diagnosis it says its for..some drs will give stuff for one thing but document another. Posted below is a website with a couple links to specific articles that explain things...yes buprenorphine and percs shouldn't take them both same time, taking the perc just a few hours after bup. and shouldn't cause withdrawal...taking percs first and bup. immediately after...bupenorphine is a synthetic opiate, its part agonist (full agonists are oxy, hydro, methadone etc.) partial agonists activate opioid receptors in brain, but to much less degree than full agonists like percocet, but bup is also part antagonist (full antagonist example is Naloxone). part antagonists blocks other opioids while allowing for some opoid effects to suppress withdrawal symptoms and cravings....put it this way, if someone thinks they have withdrawal symptoms taking subutex and percocet close together, they dont know what very bad symptoms similar to withdrawal really are until they take suboxone even 24 hrs between taking say percocet....thats what true 100% withdrawal symptoms feel like..i know because ive seen people take opiates and suboxone a couple hours apart and some say the opiate wasn't as noticeable as usually and some said the buprenorphine (subutex) effects seemed more intense than if taken alone...but every time ive seen or heard of anyone taking a opiate like percocet in the same 24 hr day as suboxone, they got so sick and threw up they didn't notice if they felt either, the nausea and vomiting is all noticed, and usually they throw both medications up that afterwards they feel nothing... [1] naabt.org/education/opiates_opioids.cfm and [2] naabt.org/education/opioids.cfm and last [3] naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm.....bup is partial synthetic opiate but methadone is probably one of the most effective meds given for pain, it actually helps pain more so than giving so much euphoric effect and lasts longer than most pain meds...

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james, i just responded to the subutex post, then saw yours about your condition..i can relate to your situation completely. like i said, i injured my back as a nurse 20 yrs ago at 29..total disability 3 yrs later, when i said that was just the beginning and afterwards, not only did my back worsen day by day, in 2002 i was in a car accident and i was hit 3 ways causing a neck injury and surgery, but then i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia then osteoarthritis had set into my entire spine, back and neck...i assumed because surgery and injury sites usually get arthritis, usually any kind of deep injury, arthritis is usually guaranteed after injuries that take a while to heal but never the same, stress from injuries usually cause arthritis eventually..so i didnt worry, until 3-4 yrs ago i started having knee, hip, shoulder, the list kept on, i was told i had osteoarthritis in every joint i had, even my jaw joints..but that usually it takes up to 20 yrs before arthritis completely destroys all cartlidge, therefore rubbing bone to bone, requiring joint replacements. ine was worsening quickly, and it was very painful just up and down 2 porch steps, so i agreed to synvisc gel inj's. in knees, its helpful..but my hips kept getting worse, down into my sacral area and thighs, i thought it was my sciatica worse, and dealt ..then the pain started down my groin, my back surgeon said, thats your hip, not all sciatica..got mri, it only went into groin on rt. got results, immediatly, after 1 mri, was told i needed rt hip replacement..i was shocked since i never was told of any childhood problems, dr was shocked didnt understand why in just short time the arthritis damaged all cartlidge, i was bone to bone and grinding..i just fiqured why not, it was continuous after back hurt, it started it all...i got second opinion and finally set surgery....afterwards, i was in recovery, the dr went to talk to my parents and 2 grown kids..said i was apparently born with hip dysplasia (hip joint was not properly formed) so the ball of hip didnt fit securely, usually fits tight, so when the arthritis set in, it destroyed the cartlidge alot faster..and my other hip would need done in 3 yrs or so...rt was worse cause my rt side is predominate, put more stress there...when i saw your post about your childhood problems and your joints, i related to you...i was 46 when i had mine replaced, 48 now, but have suffered with my body falling apart continuous for years, nothing healed, only progressed, and like a virus spreading, i got worse and worse and after one part was destroyed, another started..now my entire spine is like a tower ready to fall, basically nothing holding it stable anywhere, and my back has caused nerve damage, sciatica is like nothing compared to the rest of the nerves, then my tissue around joints is consumed by fibromyalgia and when bad, i get knots that feel like right under skin, plus all joints just ate up with arthritis..thats just part of it..i have CRPS/RSD, migraines, gastritis/reflux with hx of ulcers due to the years of NSAIDS, my legs/feet/hands swell constantly without even using them, i can relax and elevate my feet and get up and be so swollen my skin is red and hot..i cant believe noone had any idea i had deformed hip joints, i was active, athletic, even in army reserves right after high school...if they had found it before i was 35, they can reconstruct the hips, after 35, replacement is only choice..i didnt suffer from much illness when i was young but its more than made up for now...good luck, they say joint replacements are easier when young cause heal better, that doesnt count when rest body is broke down and falling apart..im like you, i am fortunate i dont suffer with addiction, the physical dependence was bad enough right after stopped pain meds...if it werent for what i experienced with someone close and addiction, i may not have been so lucky..but i fought taking them, not always good because i thought i could tough it out, so i usually was in severe pain before taking anything, wrong answer...thats why they say take something before gets very bad, then it makes it more difficult to get relief..i sometimes think i cant take it anymore, the pain, losing functioning so early in life, lost my career, so i commend those who keep on through all that PLUS addiction...i would break....and yes people who are fortunate enough to have suboxone are lucky because its expensive and as a medical professional, i know insurances arent generous when comes to expensive meds...so people shouldnt take it for granted ur right.

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hi James, i am not on suboxone, but i am a nurse, a nurse who was injured on the job 20 yrs ago at age 29 and now suffer from chronic disease and pain that ive been told have no cure and gradually debilitating, the injury just triggered just set the wheels in motion by breaking me down and one by one diseases/illnesses have taken over not just my spine but my whole body, i am not an addict (i know this because i chose to stop all pain meds, after trying multiple things, but still suffered, drs said i will always be in some pain, so if i have to deal with the pain on narcotics, i chose to deal with pain without them ande an idea of my not have the neg. effects pain meds cause)...i just wanted to give some idea of my situation before responding about the suboxone/subutex posts..the 2 are not the same. although i dont understand why any dr would give subutex with percocet...its just not commonly done, but the subutex will not reverse the percocet or cause withdrawl because subutex only contains buprenorphine, but suboxone on other hand contains buprenorphine and naloxone therefore if it was combined with percocet, not only could it trigger withdrawl, it would block the effect of the opiate, and most often cause nausea and sudden vommiting, because the naloxone is a opiate blocker and the two are not compatible. the buprenorphine is actually a opioid, its different that percocet because it is just a partial opioid antagonist. I only responded because of my medical knowlede as a RN, not trying to come across rude. but recently there has been studies that buprenorphine is effective reducing pain. before it was approved in US it was used in other countries as a pain med for years, but in early 2000 or so when approved here, it wasnt "suppose to be prescribed for pain" although many foreign drs said it helped pain, and last year i read that in early 2016 buprenorphine was gonna be FDA approved for "Pain relief"..so the drs may be already prescribing subutex for pain and with other pain meds...i dont think it would help pain alot, i would think perc would help more..but that may be why they r given together now, maybe either alone dont help alot but maybe they found if combined they work better...i dont know i do know that suboxone is only one incompatible with opiates, because the naloxone is a blocker and not compatible with the opiates..have you seen where they have made naloxone injections over counter, hoping that will prevent opiate and illicit drug overdoses, because if given after the drugs, it will reverse the effects of them...

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