New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 3)

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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I to am not one to complain and have tje same problem with the yellow ones in the past and the white m366 i to have wondered if they been altered, we are not the only ones complaining

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I take 7.5/hydrocodone/acetaminophen 325T. I have had them from a different company and I got relief. I was getting 1 a day. I started getting worse,had test done and it show I was worse,hence the pain. I din't like my doctor ,he didn't believe me. I went back to my doctor where I used to live. Here is my problem.He looked at my test and agreed I had to have pain. So now because of the stupid gov. he gave me 1 more a day. For 6 months it was ok. I have been monitoring these pills because half of my pills I get relief and half I get NONE> At first because of what I have I thought maybe I am dying, very sad.6 months ago I poured about 20 pills in my hand.They did not feel right nor look right. The pills that worked were hard to break and they were shinny, the pills that did not work were were pores and I could break them with 1 finger. Called Watson, told them spoke to the QA person and she told me I probably got bad pills.I told her what I thought. I had to have proof before I tell my doctor. Three pharmacist siad after I described the pills that they were bed pills.

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How can any Walgreens pharmacist. What they are doing is looking at your prescription history as each state has a website for its state and another for all states in America, but what I think they're doing is trying to get people away and selling something and common sense tells you if that person is going to take more than prescribed. People can say what they want but there is some type and sort of conspiracy going on with pills and the government.

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You are all correct! I've worked in purchasing for 20 years, the past 5 in the medical field. I know many doctors personally and my eldest daughter is a pharmacy tech.

Here is what ive been told directly:

1) An MD i've known for 20 years told me apron 6mo's ago prior to the change it was coming and that the active ingredient for pain was going to be removed (not completely) however.

2) Hydrocodone is split with acetaminophen.

3) The doctor said its the acetaminophen that made sense to remove. When an overdose occurs its the acetaminophen they die from upon taking too much of the med., "not the pain med itself". High doses can and will cause renal failure because their kidneys shut down. He said they don't die from the analgesic that blocks pain.

4) In my area some people have resulted to the purchase now through other means.

5) Obama phones as a way to help? Although I agree for assistance when necessary these phones have been used to track the illegal activity and drug purchase. I work for a federal funded company and a sting in my area was set up and arrests were made. (of course when you ask for assistance there are conditions, not all were for medications of course but people in need will acquire too and sometimes for the loved one in need).

5). Not the pharmacy and not the docks but they will go along with it. If they want to be in practice they have to. Some doctors will issue one time on the Meds and if more Meds need for the patient they'll give a hand prescription to walk in, people are needing more of the med now (they dont work). My mother has M.S. And my father has collapse of his disc due to horrible accident as a young mad, his leg was crushed.

6). Doc's don't want to loose their license and pharmacy will be hurt too. The pharmacies obtain their supply by manufactures like Cardinal, McKesson or Mid-Valley. Since they want their cut to put it bluntly I expect there will be a change, not in near future as we hope though. It'll take time.

7) Now the rest of it.... Carisoprodol AKA "Soma" a muscle relaxant is another on the list. So drat not changed but my mother needs this for her M.S. And about a year or so ago she had one bottle with no effect, so far just that one time. Why? I think it was an evaluation at that time, just my presumption.

Here are others that could be affected (if not already): Lorazipam, alprazolam, xanax - each of these in same family of a calm down pill used for anxiety. Possibly ambien - a sleep aid AKA as generic called Zolpidem. If you have trouble like I do over the counter Z-quil works really well (at least until gov gets hold of it too). Ut won't hurt you and not habit forming.

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I have been taking pain meds. For yrs. Started with gout in my knee. I rather be hit in the head with a bat swang by Barry Bonds. There is no 1 to 10 pain scale. 10 is to low!!! The Dr. prescribed Tylenol 3. Codine 30 mg. 500mg. Acetaminophen. We found out that I also had a liver problem, so they switched over to strictly the Codine. Now I take oxycodone 10mg. There has been times I ran out of them early and I know that it is illegal to get from a friend, but I had to do what I had to. The point I'm making is that the WATSON 853 White oblong pill works. It is all in the people's minds that there is something different or wrong with them. They need to take out the Acetaminophen. That I think causes more problems. So thanks for listening to my opinion.

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I also have no good results with Watson 853. This is the first time that I have been given these from the pharmacy. They absolutely do not work it's like taking nothing. I asked several different Pharmacy's why they went to these pills and they said they were cheaper. But I ppaid 70 more dollars for these than I used to pay so not cheaper for me.I told them sometime cheaper is not better. My Dr. told me in generics they a 20% minus or 20% plus in ingredients, so this one must be 20% minus.

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I also have chronic pain due to degenerative disc n I have a tumor on my spine in the spinal cavity on my thorasic area. It's not cancer but surgery is out of the question due to the things that may occur. Anyway I had one take n off mr lower spin that was cancer so I have been on lortabs since 2004. Well I started out getting the 10/500 n they were the white fat ones. Well when they stopped maken the tabs n also stopped maken acetaminophen in 500mg tabs. I was given narco 10/325. Well I to was given white ones not Watson n i do remember the manufacture o f them but they were ok well then I was given the yellow ones n I could tell the difference they were just like taken the big fat lortabs. Now for the past 5 months I been getting the white Watsons n like others they only make me sleepy n really don't touch the pain. I'm on fentnyl patches 50mcg/hr. The patches really work well n the narco is suppose to help with the sharp pain. Well the wr sons suck. I asked my pharmacy to get the yellow ones n everytime they tell me they can only get what they order from the place they get theirs from. I'm keep asking bc I know the yellow ones are still being made. I know several people that get the yellow ones n hey use WM pharmacy n the pharmacy in WD. I know Walgreens n CVS only use Watsons n the other off brand. I go to a mom n pop pharmacy bc their the only ones that if they only have two boxes of my patches they will give me them then the next day r two I'll go get my other box. Well all the big name pharmacies will not do this they will make u wait till they have them all n it sucks. N e way. Y'all they are still make n the yellow ones don't listen to the pharmacies that say they no longer make yellow ones.

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Thursday, Sept. 24. I took my pills, hydrocodone 7.5 because they weren't working at all. The company name Watson. My doctor agreed they didn't look right. The drugs store would not work with me on a exchange. The pills that did work were hard and difficult to break. The others fell apart easily. I called Watson and spoke the the Quality Assurance person and told her everything. She said "Oh they must have put old pills from a shelf and mixed them in with the others. I was mad. I now have to wait 3 weeks before I can legally get a new prescription from my doctor. Watson has been sold. I am changing pharmacies to one that carries a different brand. Big legal case against Watson. Try and call the pharmacies before you see your doctor and find the one best for you. You must tell your doctor. I am in pain and cry and the phar. companies don't care. Oh the pharmacist said when pills get old they loose their pain power and I basically have bad pills.

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I have too only had the yellow Norco (Qualitest) and then CVS quit with them and went to white ones made by Milkcoft (something like that) and now Walgreens (I hate Walgreens) use a crappy white one too made by Watson. None of the white compare to the yellow. I have posted before and received no reply.. And am still in horrible pain. Mostly the headaches are wearing me down. I live in the LA area and don't even know how to go about asking the smaller pharmacies which brand they use because they look at you like your a complete drug addict!! None of the pharmacy techs will hold a discussion about it?!?! They say there is no difference (they ones that have spoke with me)!! I am calling BS!! I am making an appointment with my pain specialist and asking to switch my medication. I can't do this anymore. Any ideas what medication would be equivalent to 10/325? I have been on them since 2007. I have a spinal injury that I also do epidurals every 2 months. If I knew a pharmacy in the LA area (La Habra, La Mirada, Whitier, Fullerton- ANYWHERE) I would just switch. But I haven't received any feedback or support? Please help me out with this if your have any knowledge.

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queen, talk to the Pharmacy Manager. Their picture and name is up where customers can see it.

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So just ask for the pharmacy manager and explain what I have mentioned in my post (obviously at a minimum)???
All the major places - as mentioned many of times on the forum have all switched to the white, regardless of the name. White•= horrible
I will ask them for PM. I am just so tired of the looks as soon as you/I start to ask or talk about the Norco. They just really really are straight up horrible to me

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queen, most regular drs started referring patients to pain management for Norco when it because s Schedule II last October.

There are no guarantees with the pharmacy manager, but your chances are always better when you deal with someone in authority. I never deal with pharmacy techs, I always deal with the pharmacist. They have the education and experience plus many have people skills. The pharmacists to avoid are the ones that just got out of school and they are working their first job being the pharmacist on duty. They have the book knowledge for pharmacology but not the experience dealing with different manufacturers and people like pharmacists have that have worked for a while

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I just checked on Internet to see if Watson has changed the inactive ingredients or what is going on. Your post could have been written by me. It could have been written by my daughter. I would have thought it was my imagination, but when I telephoned her with my concerns, she said "ME, TOO!".

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I called and talked with Qualitest ( they make the yellow ones) they said they are still making Narco and they have plenty. No shortages, no back orders.
Watson= sleepy..no pain relief
Qualitest= yellow, not sleepy, pain relief.
For the life of me I don't know what the reason is other than $$$$. It costs less..So pharmacies don't care about the pain...they just want your money.

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What happened that made her almost die? Sounds like a major legal suit to me. What happened to make the police involved? What state are you in?

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Jan, have you called different pharmacies in different parts of town? Try calling a few different pharmacys in the best part of town. Or if you have the time go in and speak to the pharmacist on duty in person. Have you talked to the Pharmacy Manager at your pharmacy. If not, call and ask for to speak them or ask if they are on duty if you go in person. Usually the Pharmacy Manager has their picture up with their name under their picture in the front where you can see it.

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I have been seeing pain management since 2009- my dr couldn't deal with my spine injury. As for talking to someone at pharmacies- that's the problem (at least where I live)!!! The shut down, look at you like your up to something and then refuse your business. The top two prior posts- Ditto!!! I too could have wrote & said the exact same thing. My sister should me a small pharmacy last week that I am going to try and see how it goes. What I do know - not taking another white crap Norco again. Question- I know Qualitest. But Norco the brand, non generic is yellow too? I have only had generic. I am going to ask my pain dr for name specific. If he is not willing- change my meds.

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queeniek, if.you signed a pain contract you may need to.talk.to your Dr before getting the prescription filled at another pharmacy. Not doing so could be breaking your contract and leaving.you without pain.management.

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you have to call the pharmacies and ask what dealers do you get. I recently herd they are taking Watson off the shelf. When Watson QA person told me they mix old pills in with new ones it made me angry. So being without legitimate medince for 3 months I have been in bed. Not even going in my backyard. Too much pain. I don't care about anything. I see my doctor next week, .I am going to a different pharmacy, They carry Qualistes and another brand, not Watson. Watson got bought out for 365 billion dollars,must be nice.

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Here is the problem I am running into- I can't talk with ANYONE!!! Or even ask questions- ESPECIALLY if I dare ask what brand of Norco's they carry in stock. It is beyond ridiculous.
I want to ask my dr for brand specific. Qualitest is fine with me. Does anyone know if brand name Norco is yellow? Do they work ? What markings do thy have on them.
I found a yellow one in a container yesterday and it had a V on one side?? Is this Qualitest markings? I go pick up my script tomorrow so I would appreciate the feedback.
As for Watson & Millkroft (mis spelled) I just refuse to waste my time or liver on something that doesn't work

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