Advice Starting Suboxone, ?s

I am about to start Suboxone for the second time. The first time I didn't follow the rules and began taking it before I was in withdrawals. It was awful. I want to do it right this time. They say wait until you are at least in mild withdrawals. That is different for everyone. I am terrified of taking it too early. I am snorting heroin daily. I have weened myself off to just three lines per day. The dope I get isn't good either. My question is do I need to wait until I am a complete mess? Can I start taking it when I just start feeling anxious and restless? Should I be puking. Anyone with advice or personal experience please respond. I have to get it right this time. I have complete faith in this drug. Thanks!

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Are you not consulting with a doctor on this, so they can instruct you on when you should take it?

Most will have you take it at set times to prevent symptoms. If you are trying to do this on your own, you may end up in a very dangerous situation.

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you have to be in full blown withdrawl for it to work. if u take it too soon you will get very sick. sicker than withdrawls. the dr. said wait 2 days and the pharmacist said 12 hr. i tried the 12hrs and felt 100 % better.. i hope u realize that this drug is addictive too and that u will need to ween off them too which is not as easy as it sounds. they want u to stay on subs for ever. i think that the dr.s get a huge kickback for keeping us all drugged up in this great U.S of A....also, if u try and quit the subs and go back on opiates, its not true what they say about the drugs feeling stronger and that u need way less to feel the effects...its the other way around...u dont feel them and need to jack the pills way up to get a buzz. if u take any drugs while on subs u will be very ill. good luck in whatever u choose.

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Thanks for the help. Yes I am using a Dr. I followed his advice the first time and it failed miserably. Basically he said as long as I waited twelve hours I would be ok. I know the risks of Sub. addiction. I was sober for six years and fell back into trouble after a severe accident. I am not as naive as my original post may make me sound. I am aware of my mistakes, risks, and the viscous circle created by opiates. Cocopuffs thank you for the specifics about your experience. That is exactly what I am looking for. Because I didn't get great advice from my doctor (I know everyone is different and I do not blame him) I want to hear about others' experiences starting Suboxone. Please everyone who can comment on this subject please do so. What was your habit, how long did you wait, how much sub did you take, and what were the results? These forums are great tools. They can motivate and help junkies. Thanks to everyone who participates. Good luck with your own situations.

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Here's my take on the whole situation. First off, I'm an IV heroin addict. I've been on and off suboxone periodically and never had a problem with it. The worst experience I ever encountered was before I knew suboxone could throw you into withdrawal if taken too early and took an 8 mg dose under the tongue first thing in the morning after having shot dope 3 or 4 times the day and night before. Approximately 30 min later my body got very achey and I didn't feel too hot. However, it certainly was no worse than a real withdrawal and by no means as bad as doctors and others have prophesized to me in the past. I didn't have any other symptoms, just the aches. And yes, my habit was to the point to where coming off cold turkey would leave me terribly ill, with the full gambit of symptoms including vomitting and cold sweats and all that good stuff. So, my point is that you there's no need to be overly apprehensive about when to take suboxone. General rule of thumb is it works best if you wait until your opiate receptors are pretty much empty. For different people that time frame is different, depending on how often you use and what kind of opiate you're using, I find it best to wait until I have those goosebump things where your skin feels leathery and you start getting goosebumps, but before the point of vomitting. When taken at that point you can really tell how good it works and you'll even get bit euphoric because of how much better you feel! I also find that suboxone gives me the energy back that heroin so insiduously rips out from right underneath you! Good luck

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Verwon....You need help, really you do! Somewhere along the line narcissism took over in your life, and you believe yourself, or what 90% of pain management doctors are telling you, which they themselves are completely out of touch of the reality of addiction, and what their patients are going through. Most real addicts are just rats or mice in the eyes of most physicians......they tend to be very tunnel visioned in their therapy or approach, losing site(if they ever had it) of the bigger picture.

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you don't need suboxone. I kicked snorting a BUNDLE a day COLD ! Sure it's rough for a few days, but the memory of that horror keeps me from going back !!! Suboxone just another addicting drug making the pharmaceutical co.'s rich !

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of course anyone could withdraw cold turkey if they really wanted to teach themselves a lesson, but I'll tell you this much: if you're not truly ready to stop then it doesn't matter how many times you put yourself through the torture of a cold turkey withdrawal. I simply don't see the point in putting your body through that stress, cause even though opiate withdrawal isn't considered to be a medical emergency such as alcohol or benzos, you can still f*** your body up. Moreover, I certainly wouldn't consider suboxone to be an addictive drug. Apparently suboxone can get you f****d up if you're a real fesh f****n baby in the game! But I'll tell you I'm a far cry from that possibilty. I've taken it right up to the ceiling before it puts you into precipitated withdrawal just for s*** and giggles, and nothing! Also, for the dude who was snorting a bindle a day....yeah, that's a good amount of dope and you probably felt some pain comin of that cold turkey, but trust me when I tell you this: if you were bangin a bundle a day and came off the way you did, then I guarantee you would feel very differently about what you wrote! That's like comparing jerkin off to a blow job from a perfect ten model! Alright people, I'm done venting my boredom on this forum just cause I've got s*** else to do! I'll leave you guys to it! Peace!

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I would not consider myself an addict but friend and supporter to many recovering. A friend of mine was staying with me to get clean and I introduced her to cymboxin which i began taking 1 every 2 days to get rid of my body's physically strong desire to use oxycontin after a short 3 week binge. I have chronic back pain and just hours after an oxy high I would be in a Lot of pain, not sick like withdrawal, but unable to walk comfortably at all. The cymboxin does in fact make you less likely to get as high from the same amount of opiats, However, after you no longer want opiats(full recovery) the slight addiction you have to cymoxin is not in any way physical like opiats are. The addictive personality however of the (former) opiat addict continues use of cymboxin as a pickmeup. after recovery, my friend still took them but less n less. now she may take a half or even a quarter to feel better n general even tho she has no desire for opiat use. i believe there is a big difference in desire and addiction that many blur. EVERYONE wants to feel energetic n painfree. the addiction comes from the strong opiat high we chase which then becomes physically addictive and the mental addiction can only TRULY change when we change and find different ways o feel more energetic and pain free. by treating our bodys better in everyday life afterall the reason people tak suboxin is because we dont WANT the opiats anymore but we feel our body needs them for lack of knowing another way to feel that good n u will nevver feel THAT type of high naturally, but there are better highs, not stronger but better because you are no longer a slave to opiats

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i should probably add that my father was a heroin addict and used methadone n all the bullsh*t and used that to ween off for 17 years. I belive suboxin would have saved his life and saved me plently of nights with him and his horrific withdrawals. I know I came off a bit DrPhil earlier but I belive it is important to say. and anyone wo could stop cold turkey without meds or a emergency hospital visit wasnt truly physically addicted. in your case you should have definatly used suboxin because you woldnt have needed it for more than a day or two. I want to also send all my best wishes to those in recovery and if you could, like i said above, find other things to make you feel good. Hell, go on a F***in crazy rollercoaster or have some amazing sex, or spend time with your favorite people, especially kids. ha kids always make me feel good, reminds you of the stuff that really matters

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To Patrick:
I've been on Suboxone for around 2 years ow and it has changed my life. I know that sounds corny but it's true. I am not spending all of my money o drugs ad I'm a completely different person. My family trusts me again and I'm not constantly calling in sick due to withdrawal. I started o 4 8 MG tablets a day (Don't know how I got him to agree to that high an amount) and am down to 1/4 of a tablet a day now.
When I started I just waited overnight so 12 hours sounds sufficient. Especially with such a fast withdrawal period as heroine. The drug is expensive and that's part of the reason I am on such a low dose now but I am not unhappy about it. I spend $20 every 12 days which is a lot better than possibly $100 or more in one day.
Do it right and you should enjoy the new freedom you get.

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I just recently went through the worst withdrawals from taking Subs too early. I only took a quarter of an 8mg sub after not snorting any H or OC for about 16 hours. I felt bad that's why I took the sub but it only made it 10 times worse. I had leg cramps, my mind was racing out of control, it was terrible. After abut 4 or 5 hours I took another quarter and it still just got worse with no relief. I felt relief only while it was under my tongue. It seemed like once it was all the way dissolved it kicked in the withdrawals worse. I ended up giving in and blowing some H. I'm trying to get on the subs so I'm going to give it a try again. I'm so worried about it being so bad again though. I don't know how much longer I have to wait and how much worse it has to be. I can't even explain how awful it was. I seriously thought I was going to die. I wondering if I just didn't take enough of the suboxone initially. Any suggestions?

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Patrick, the best advise I could give you about when to start would be from my own use of suboxone. I took my last dose of percs at noon and did on 3 10/325 when I would usually do 6. I then did no more and took an ambien to fall asleep. I woke up at around 5am in mild with-draw and began my first dose. This worked very well for me but as all have said in here, each person reacts different. Either way I wish you well on your recovery as it is a battle with or with out the subs. One day at a time. I also went on for only two weeks as I did not want to sub one drug for another. If you ween down on the second week you should be good to come off like I did. Again good luck and may the lord be with you.

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J Sik, You definately nailed it with what you said about the process. For some it can be 12 or so hours and for others it can take longer than 24 hours. I have been an IV Heroin user for 20+ years and have done ALL possible options. My advice would be to go to a 5 (preferably stay the full 7 days to give yourself a few days methadone (Or Methadose depending on where your from. There similar chemically in the body but have VERY different half lifes and reactions, or side effects i guess youd call them more. Don't forget also, Suboxone has the opiate analog Buprinorfrin (an addictive opiate that is not a true opiate molecule but a variation of a similar chemical structure to Tramadol or any other synthetic Codiene-type creation. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT : Suboxone also contans an opiate antagonist called NARCAN. This is used to bring a friend out of an Overdose very quick and is used intraveiniously and really is fast as heck. You can get this with a short educational discussion and a kind of short training program on how to use it (Like any of us hardcores need it>>>) but that is what creates the dope sickness in a person when Sub's are taken to quickly after using. and it is no where near as BAD as normal crappy heroine withdrawals.
As i said originally, in my opinion i've had nothing but clenliness from all opiates (even refusing pain killers when i recently cut three toes off in an AXE-ident, but for me that is ABSOLUTELY necessary because now a days i have such a mental capacity to recieve the opiate endorphin stimulators that my brain shuts my natural endorfin producer right down.) I can also say that the 7 day detox is the best for many because its a sober haven with all family in the same boat, which is comforting to not feel sick alone, as long as its not just like you and one other sick-ass person making you get worse by association. It just works great because even though Methadone is a synthetic and potent opiate, you will only be on it for a total of 5 days (last 2 days are just for getting ready to face the block and your peoples again, which will probably be your worst trigger, although MONEY is usually the biggest if not relationship probems.)
f*** the Suboxone bro, it's as long term as Outpatient Methadone which youll MAYBE be able to get the nuts to get off the s***.
Once you decide to, if you come down faster than around 2-3 mg per week your gonna get syptoms of dope sickness the whole time your coming down. Especially heeby-Geebies (aka the skin crawler illness), sleep you can forget about probably, also youll find that youll continually get hot/cold flashes and fever like feelings. Almost the same type of withdrawal as from H, however, this substance has a longer half-life in the human body than H. One thing i can say is if your a fat type person or at least have more fat type body mass (Not muscles at all) all substances i've used thorghout my many years of hardcore drug use, i get sick at least 20+ hours AFTER my wife had been sick after about 8. She is only 5` 6 and only 108 punds. She used a half gram shot every time i did so we kept an EXACT habit including when we decide to shoot some of the non-generic Oxycontin 80's or 160's, which stopped after i broke a green generic 80mg and spooned it only to find that they added an extra reactant than is a polymer, which will create a jello lump in your spoon or cooker or whatever. You end up eating that s*** though so it's no big deal but a pain in the ass to not shoot it for that instant sick relief we all pray for (BTW, you'll know you got the generice because the 80's are green ovals with a scoring on the front in between two number sets. on the left side is a 33 and on the other is a 93, but keep in mind i'm just talking about the 80 mg generic pieces of crap since they are most prevalent where i'm from. Back to the ORIGINAL QUESTION, (sorry everyone it's my stupid ADD)Depending on what habit youve had prgressively, which will naturally increase over a short period too. It would be a dumb idea to even consider your option or at least your inquiry into Sub's having a change for the better per se. LIke that other poster up top a bit said (forget who sorry) your only gonna get strung out on another outpatient opiate which is friggin dumb except in certain cases, inho. Try the 7 day detox , which is a sleep at the joint for your days and nights and go to a bunch of intesting educative speeking groups, etc. But you wont be on the 'Done for mor than 5 days which you start at 30 mg wafer pills and then progressively quick, But not enough to make you even feel ill at all, 5 mg's per day early in the am, and if you ask you can usually always ask and get sleep aids and quuinine for your leg cramps, that is only if you even get them which i highly doubt youll get with your weened off tiny habit. But they usually will general have comfort meds to ease any potential pains and cramps, etc. STAY AWAY FROM LONG TERM METHADONE TREATMENTS. It just is a business that gets you on goverment - pharmaceutical industry/company programs to keep the heroin cash a) In THIS country's grasp and control as well as the perfect way to keep track of any and all junkies in the city or own the clinics are in. But trust me the easiest, most agony free way to kick any opiate is short term, 5-7 day in patient. you just have to prove to them that you have opiates in your system. Also a little trick for you is to get the nurse drug dispenser to give you your wafers on the first night. The only way to do that is to pretend to be sick. She'll take your pulese and blood pressure and look visibly for signs of illness, so you'll have to do a bunch of push ups in your room secretly immediately prior to your visit with her, then a little trick i use to keep up the heart rate and blood pressure is to squeeze your asss cheeks together as hard as you can for as long as you can and keep this going on until her test are done. Don't say you got high in at least 14-to 20 hours so she'll see your sick, cuz if you go in noticeably high they wont distribute your 'Done until the next morning and trust me you dont wanna wait that long when your getting sicker and sick and knowing theres a safe full of wafers in her offiice. the in house detox is the olnly on that worked for me ever but it still took about 10 or so times of going back to finally get my mind right and get free again. Plus outpatient means you can practially never leave your community/ town/ city, etc cuz you'll be locked to the chains of the Done though if you give your clinic time they can find and make it so you could go get it at the nearest clinic to wherever you went, but it's a true pain in the ass man. Just do the 5-7 day detox and stay away from all your peoplesor old spots for as long as it takes. Get new clean peple in your life to keep you from using lonliness and bordem as a easy cop out trigger to use. Its not easy and heres the real fact: THIS IS A CLUB WITH A LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP. tHOUGH YOU MAY BE CLEAN YEARS IT ONLY TAKES ONE DUMB ASS THOUGH = OR IDEA TO RUIN YOU AGAIN. go the 7 days and just get it over with. I say f*** all opiate substites as much as possible and for as short a time as any. I have kick both 120 mg's of methadone in jail 3 times and i ca honestly say that it is WAY WORSE OF A KICK. Last time i was cripplingly sick ilocked in solitary confinement for 31 days before being let out cuz the prick CO's didn't like hearing my death curdling screams of terrible agony. The sickness passed a whole 6 and change months later. I've kicked H so many times now it's worthless to count. This doesnt even come close to a comparison. Thats why i say only do it for the 5 days they hook you up w/ at the in house detoxes. Believe me if it sticks with you and you dont f*** up like a normal first timer through the system of opiate addiction handling, then move on with your life hapy and dope free. remember how good it felt to be able to wake up wherever and not need to fix yoour rig up immidieately. Freedom brotha. Fight for it. Stick with it and you'll probably end up in the prison system for a gang of time or youll overdose and die, or the worst of all youll be the only one left of your runing mates to be alive still without death from OD. Just stop f***ing around and get on it bro. If you truly want it badly then youll have no problem at all kicking how i told you. It's also easier if you only snort. The points are another addiction in themselves since its so much more of a ritual that way not to mention the immediacy of the drugs action. I hope i shed some light my brotha and best of luck to even though luck has s*** to do with this. It's your integrity and self love thatll pull you away and get your head outta your ass. Just buy american grown domestic Cannabis and keep American money in the little american families hands to help the people be able to empower and themselves to become busness, ect. All your loot is going to gang bangers and tyranical dictators, not to metion the DEA's cut. fight ignorance through consciousness. Relearn you the f*** you are without your cut-ass who knows what dope your doing. It's probably cut with methadone already or benzos like 2 mg clonapins or even s***tier .1 mgs of Lorazepam (the weakest of the benzo's aka Attivan). Fact is stop putting s*** inside your temple that is meant to help you learn about your wourld and culture as well unlock the key's to nature and the cosmos. All dopes gonna give is loneliness, best friends hating you for f***ing robbing them or scamming them somehow. Alienation from your closest family and a s***load of bad days full of sickness and misery. Although maybe you just like to hold a bathroom trash over your face and between the lap to puke your guts out while butt-pissing constantly. Anziety, Insomnia with body pain and aching in your bone marrow and joints and no tru lover. Its just a sucker ass drug these days. maybe if humans could keep it like the late 1880's and not use impure and scarily cut and mistreated H then it'd be easiear to be consistant. But I would only use it for an old skool serious pain and never more than two consecutive days in a row or i'd get sick. When kicking you HAVE to force down a gang of H20 because if you kick cold turkey, the puking alone will dehydrate you to an exausted and crippled state, buit it wont stop your need to puke. The water will make it real easy and don't eat anyting for a few days. give it 4-7 days of cold turkey kicking and your done bro. It's bad truly but like another poster said up aboveto go through a cold turkey kick will be a serious reminder of how bad you dont wanna go through it again EVER. Regaurdless of those off days when you can get weak juast remember. And regaurdless of what anyone tells you you caant just chip and get away with it. Trust any og H user, it'll only grow and go right back to start. Take care and i'll pry to Jah on your behalf tonight. Peace brother. dopehow well your daily scam pays off, end results

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Best way to start is go to bed that night when you get up if you are ok wait a little bit until you feel the need to use then take it, or if you wake up and feel the need to use then take it. I know many and there is no need to wait until you are going crazy to start it.

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Help! I found cocaine in my wife's purse. she said it couldn't be hers because she was taking suboxin (sp?) She made up a story that she stopped using drugs over a year ago and she was just going to sell the left over cocaine to a friend. Based on her physical symptoms, I don't believe it for a minute. She has turned me into the bad guy for throwing her stuff out instead of talking to her about it. So my question is........even if she is taking suboxin, can't she still use coke? Then there is the question of whether or not she is really taking the suboxin. Her attitude has grossly changed in the last 3 months, her sleeping patterns have chnaged, she sits in the house and does nothing anymore, she goes to sleep on the couch as soon as she gets home from work around 5:00 and then is extremely restless after that.

Help!

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i was on 115 mgs of methadone for 15 yrs,i swiched to soboxone 6 months ago but did it to fast,i lowered myself from 115 to 30mgs in 4 days and skipped 2 days,i went on soboxone and went into full over the brink withdraw for 15 hrs,i'm fine now but would have lowered much slower if i would have known it would have been that bad for 15 hrs.

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my advice is to stay away from methadone,it's the hardest drug to come off of,i know after 20 yrs of 120mgs,i swithed to suboxone 6 months ago and am down from 16 to 4mgs with no ill effect,that was never the case with methadone.

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Please tell me if you can get high from suboxone. They have pu tmy daughter on this for coming off of methodone. I am afraid of treating a drug with a drug.

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you won't grt high from suboxone,it's like an awakeining,you feel clean,mind is clear,i'm really impressed with the progress i've made on suboxone,if i didn't get off methadone i felt i was going to be on it forever.

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I too started subozone before i was withdrawling and it was worse than not having any pills at all. the second time i did it right and it worked. but i relapsed and been taking pills for 10 years altogether now. it's hell..good luck to those stuggling....lisa

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I've white knuckled it before and I didn't get a good night's sleep for at LEAST two weeks & wasn't feeling remotely good until a month in. I'm not saying it's impossible or that one shouldn't quit-I'm simply saying that help in the form of pharmaceuticals (suboxone! Yay!), counseling, or whatever is a MUCH better route than simply gritting your teeth & hoping. Also, I've started subs/bups a bunch of times & you don't need to give it '24 hours to start- just wait 'til you're sneezing, eyes watering, sweaty, etc.

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I totally agree about the difference between desire and addiction.
I am an addict in terms of the way i go about my life. I get addicted to routines of control and release with food, TV, study, social life and everything else. So its no surprise that I became dependent on over the counter pain medicine. The thing is, I stayed on the same dose, two tablets every four hours, for 2 years. God knows I wasn't getting high but the addiction beast was fed and quiet for some hours. It eventually spiralled out of control. I take 2 mg suboxone now and I am planning to come off in the next month under the advice of my doctor.

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The last time I try come'n off heriot with subby I wait the 12 hours took 8ml n it never did anything was just as bad as a was now a really want this to work si how long n how much do I need to take I was thinking of starting on 6 ml n want to wait at least 12 to 18 hours can u help plz

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Your situation & use is exactly my situation as well!!! I am looking to get back on sub tx and am petrified of p.w. Everyone being different & having different results makes finding advice hard!! Is there any surefire way of not experiencing p.w.???

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can you be on seboxin and still do heroin and pass your pee tests? my son is on it but he still acts shady and is glassy eyed at times and out of it

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You people have no idea about how subutex/suboxone works. 1 you don't need to wait anymore than 24 hours to start subs if using heroin. 2 subs are both agonist and antagonist so once you reach a certain dose they effectively block out any other opiate/opiod that you try to use. 3 taking other opiates/opiods while on subs will NOT make you sick, you just won't feel their effects due to the subs blocking properties. 4 subs are not the magic bullet for addicts as you also become dependent on them and after being on subs for a while you will find that coming off them is VERY difficult and extremely long winded, the best you can hope for is to taper down to the smallest amount you can (I'm taking crumbs here; break your pills into small pieces when you want to get off them) but even doing this will cause you to experience classic opiate/opiod withdrawal. Don't believe what the so called medical professionals tell you as they talk out of their arses. 5 subs have an extremely long half life so if you try to use another narcotic drug it will have no effect until the subs start to leave your brain (this can be anywhere from 48 - 96 hours after last sub, but may even take longer depending on your metabolism and the size of your sub habit) in my opinion people should only use subs as a quick detox tool, ie only take them for 1 or 2 weeks maximum and then get off them before you become too dependent, believe me sub withdrawal is no fun and if you stay on them for long you will find out the hardway.

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10 bags in a day is nothing. Try 20 bags in one dose. For years at a time. Then you know you need suboxone or methadone. And if you think suboxone isn't addictive your so wrong, it's just as addictive as the rest and withdrawls last longer then heroin but are slightly less brutal.

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Your are so wrong on so many levels evrything u said ive done and nothing of what u mentioned happend do not listen to this guy at all....all you need is one 8 mg sub and take a quater of it a day for 4 days and thats it u might feel slight discomfort afterwords but it will be nothing like full blown withdrawels

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You will be fine after 12 hours for sure, if u are having w/d symptoms, that's good enough!!! I waited 12 hrs and was fine, it worked instantly and I was at pretty much the same level of use as you!! Just make sure your nice and uncomfortable when u get there!! I felt like I had the flu and was anxious, and irritable.. That worked for me.. Good luck...

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So here's the deal, I started Suboxone yesterday and was obsessed with trying to figure out exactly how long I had to be in withdrawl before starting.. The last thing in the world I wanted was to go into precipitated w/d.. Here's what I did... Woke up 4am yesterday am, took 5 percocet (5mg) just cause the am is horrible and I know I had to go to work.. I stayed up.. My body is used to taking upto 120 mgs total per day.. I started feeling s***ty about 10 am.. Drank tons of water to flush the opiate. Felt worse and worse all day, I knew that I was def in w/d and my apt was at 4pm.. I started with 4mg of suboxone and it stabilized me instantly... I knew at this point there was no precipitated w/d coming my way... (Thank god) and was examined an hr later by my dr. And given another 2 mg... I instantly felt "NORMAL" no more sick.... Everyone is diff.. If you know it in w/d and your sick, you should be fine, just 12 hours was fine for me... My DOC is and has only ever been percocet..

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