Subutex Question For Someone That Really Really Really Knows! (Page 4)

Looooong read. I warn you now :)

Ok. PLEASE don't explain how it works or what it does. Save yourself the time. I am extremely familiar with how it works and what it does.

But I have a question that's been on my mind for many moons, forever actually (10 plus years) and I can't seem to get a straight answer to it no matter how many times I ask it and where I ask it. I am asking it here for the first time.

Just always get the usual, familiar rhetoric explaining to me how it works and where it binds and what it does, blah blah blah, but no one ever can explain the "why" behind all this wonderful science!

And at the end have one first hand case PROVING what I'm questioning to be true.

Ok so follow. So if buprenorphine is stronger than and has a higher affinity than let's say Oxycodone as a real life example, and will kick off that opioid from the receptor, this meaning it "replaces" it and fills it, then WHY bother waiting to take it?

Immediately or 24 hours later, either way, it's going to sit in that same receptor and do the exact same job!!!

I'm so tired of reading about this precipitated withdrawal crap. Now, tired of reading about it does NOT equate to not believing it. You would be an ***** not to believe it because there are just too many cases of it to be ignored so it's a real thing. I just don't understand WHY it's a real thing?

Because I cannot POSSIBLY imagine why having the opiate kicked off the receptor immediately, or having the remains of it kicked off 24 hours later, can produce such drastic night and day results?

Heck, I've know addicts that were given Narcan to reverse overdoses who didn't go through such pain as you read about some people trying to come off with Subutex or suboxone too soon and not waiting long enough!

24 stinking hours? Seriously? I mean I just don't understand WHY it would be ANY more painful OR horrible OR agonizing to just take the Subutex at anytime you want whether it's during opiate intake, an hour after Intake, or 24 hours after opiate intake, either way, no matter WHEN it is done, it is going to perform the exact same function. It's going to kick it off and replace anything that's in its way!

So why if you took it too soon would you go into agonizing withdrawal? You should NOT be going into ANY withdrawal whatsoever even if you take it immediately, because it immediately fills the receptor and prevents withdrawal.

I mean that's the entire purpose of this drug is to prevent withdrawal. That's what it is designed to do. That's what it's made to do. Whether you take it immediately or 24-36 hours later?

I mean if it took a couple weeks after you stopped taking opioids to go into withdrawal and then you could use Subutex maybe I could understand why it would matter if you did it immediately but 24 hours? That's absurd to my brain!

Now for the proof I was speaking of. After enduring watching my wife going on and off Suboxone a dozen plus times, each and every time having to watch her in agony as she detoxed off Percocets for 24 hours first. (Heavily researched this drug before I tried to put her on it for the first time and had that SAME question THEN 10 years ago)

Sitting back and watching her do something that I had ALWAYS considered to be useless, what I ALWAYS considered to be needless and what I ALWAYS considered to be nothing more than a ploy the doctors PURPOSEFULLY do as well as the manufacturer, that is to put the patient into DEEP detox so they can become their NEW PIMP, and heroes and rescuers, I ran across a small psychiatrist in Texas..

Giving up on explaining my theory to him as I had already convinced myself there was no need to detox first, was only being done to hook the patients on a very expensive product, the psychiatrist started laughing when I asked him about the usual 24 hour detox.

He became my white knight in shining armor when he said "no that's ridiculous, Suboxone will immediately replace the opiates and there's no advantage one way or the other to doing a detox first"

Smiling from ear to ear but refraining from telling him I have always thought that, for the first time after dozens of times I gave it to my wife WITHOUT waiting and guess what?

Yep that's right, she immediately responded, felt great, and took up right where she left off after just doing a couple Percocets a couple hours before, thus proving that she NEVER needed to do that 24 hours first as I have always thought.

But my question remains, I have seen far too many documented stories of precipitated withdrawal as well as read tons of agonizing stories that were NOT precipitated but just more or less people who went through living hell by doing it too soon... when there's absolutely no medical or scientific reason why they should have???

What gives???

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Re: Kim (# 60)

I changed my mind. You’re not stupid and mentally unstable. You’re evidently 12-years-old after that last post!

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How’s everyone doing!? Subutex is only a partial opioid. There are 3 different receptors that I know of. Buponorphine only has an affinity for one as full opiates bind to all the receptors. Taking subutex is stronger when binding to the specific receptor kicking in off the weaker oxy ect... throwing the body into a chemical imbalance hence precipitated withdrawals can incur

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Re: Matty b (# 62)

Thank God, we are back to normal replies before those last half-dozen or so!!!

Hello Marty :) I guess my question would be that let’s assume all of that is correct and it sounds correct to me. The question still remains as regardless of what transpires when you take it, the exact same thing is going to take place 24 hours later as well. The question I am trying to ask is what is the difference between now are 24 hours from now? That’s what it all comes down to.

So what you’re really saying is that the sub is only going to knock the oxy off one receptor which means the other two receptors will stay full which is all the MORE reason to believe that there’s no need to wait 24 hours.

In theory waiting 24 hours will actually be worse because then you’re going to have two extra receptors that are empty and only one when you take it where as doing it immediately all three are full. So again something is still not right :)

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In my experience it seemed methadone was the med that would send u into withdrawals if mixed within 72hrs. I lied to the Dr. about my time frame and I paid dearly for it! It had only been about 26hrs! The Dr. could have “slipped me a micky” knowing I’d get sick. And like u say, the next day he comes they like a hero with the super drug! But it’s always methadomes to Suboxe not Suboxe to methadones. Being on domes first so it’s actually in ur system for some time.

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Hi, thank you for writing about this issue. I've been on subutex since 2007 8mg x 4 daily. So I also have alot of knowledge about buprenorphine. A few times I did try to get detox off with no luck. My last attempt was in june. I decided this time to go back to a pain management dr... He gave me the usual detox meds along with percocet 10s x 4 daily. I took my last sub in the morning a few hours later when my script was filled I didn't have to wait any period of time he said even if I told my last sub in the morning to take it whenever I can...so 9 days later and didn't finish the detoxing off subs. He gave me my subutex script and said go get it filled and start taking your subs anytime you want..the drs. Back when I started buprenorphine treatment in 2007bthey always all said you have to wait to take your new scripts when your in deep detox. There is no need to wait...the newish doctors now a days don't seem to follow that old rule anymore. I've helped alot of people with new buprenorphine treatments. And their dr. gave the medicine right away, no waiting 24 hours anymore. You have written this so well. I hope others are read this because there is no reason to put yourself through the hell of detox.

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If you get the white pop out under the tongue that you slide out with, read the how, what, when and why... It will answer all your questions.

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I don’t remember waiting to take suboxone when I switched over.

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So, it's actually 8 hours after taking something like a pain pill, but it's supposed 2 be at least 24 hours after taking another opioid. After the allotted amount of hours, the level of the drug isn't as high & has already basically left the receptors in your brain. The drug may be in your system for a week, but it leaves the receptors after a certain amount of time, insert cravings, not withdrawal, but cravings. That's when your brain is telling u "Hey. I have no more happy stuff in here! Gimme more!" So if u don't wait those hours, there is a possibility u can go into DT's bc the naloxone is pushing everything out of your system at once & making way 4 the buprenorphine 2 enter. I can take it as soon as I've taken something else & be fine, but I've watched people take it too soon & go into SEVERE automatic DT's. They also have to give whatever drug time to get into your system, attach itself to the receptors & then start 2 leave. They have an intense detox system that gets u clean in just 3 days. They hook u up 2 an IV of 100% naloxone & it just literally pushes all the drugs put of your system, so a 2 week detox happens in matter of hours & apparently it is f***ing painful. But that is the why. The drugs leave your receptors within hours of taking it & if Suboxone is used before it has had time 2 completely vacate the premises, then u have a forced eviction

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