Roxane Subutex (westward/hikma)

So for a couple years now my Roxane/westward/hikma pills have been super inconsistent or just flat out felt like 2mgs instead of 8mgs. Sometimes they work sometimes they do almost nothing. It started in about the end of 2015. I think i was taking them before 2015 but never looked at the brand until i started having withdrawals out of nowhere. It was like a completely different med. So for almost 2 years i have been having issues. I'm fed up and i have changed brands but always only had partial fills and back to the roxane/westward/hikma brand. Anyone else notice any differences in this brand?

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Hello,

This definitely sounds like a problem! Every generic is supposed to stay within an error window of 20% of the brand name drug so going through withdraws is absolutely a problem.

Just to be absolutely sure you're positive that the pills you have been receiving the last 2 years are the same? By this I mean the imprints have remained the same, the dosages on the pill bottle remain the same and nothing out of the ordinary seems to be varying from one prescription to the next. Also are you returning to the same pharmacy every single time or have you tried swapping pharmacies? Have you also looked into making sure you are storing your drugs properly?

While it may seem odd to ask these questions I do so because I want to make sure that you are looking at all the possibilities. If a drug is not handled and stored properly it could definitely lose some of it's potency (such as getting them wet, storing in hot or humid cabinets etc.). You mentioned that you were happy with them sometimes but other times not at all. There are a lot of factors when considering your bodies ability to absorb medication.

I don't want to discredit you and say that the pills/brand is not the problem I simply wanted to provide you with other possible scenarios so that you have a better scope of the situation. I really hope the new brand works for you. Best of luck.

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Ive been using Roxanne off and on since 2010 and Im very picky about my medication and I notice the smallest difference between brands. I didn't care for Roxanne when I first switched from suboxone and got the brand name until they were discontinued. Then I found Teva s brand which was awesome! They discontinued the Teva brand in 2015 and the next best brand was Roxanne so I stuck with it and I was forced to try other brands when it was unavailable. I tried the tiny hi tech brand a few times which are way underdosed and suck, sun pharma which ate underdosed and low quality, activis ok as far not being underdosed but the orange flavoring and other fillers made it not great ( although in an emergency I would probably go with activis). I honestly have not noticed any difference in the Roxanne / Westward brand and I've been on the alert. I still prefer it over all the other available brands by far! The only other brand I have not tried is the new Rhodes Purdue brand that is supposed to be good but it is very sparce and not widly available yet. Hopefully to the Rhodes brand will be available soon to more people and o can try it out. I would love a new high quality brand!!! It seems like all the newer brands have been pretty bad.

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Re: Bobby (# 2)

Last month I got stuck with the activist orange 8mg bup...I haven't had to take them for along time.. it by the time I got out of the drs office my small mom n pop pharmacy was closed..so I to the 3 day of taking them i noticed night sweats and mild withdrawal symptoms. And it was bad even with nausea..i emailed my dr..she gave me clonidine and nausea medicine...i also found out that my normal pharmacy i told them to order the new Rhodes subs. And wow I was shocked they got them in the next day...but I'm into this script for now. So im patiently waiting for my next month's new script..because my mom n ppl pharmacy has either hikma or Rhodes. Two great generics hummm what should I choose I think.....I absolutely can't wait. I have 2 and half weeks to go with my actavis brand

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I have taken westward for 2 months and then I received the new hikma brand..I didn't notice a difference in them I liked them alot...I have taken buprenorphine since 2007 starting with the brand name..I now told my pharmacy to order the new generic Rhodes..on another blog ppl are just raving about them...believe or not after taking subs I have only tried Teva brand the tiny while ones..and the orange activist..to me they are the worst I got stuck with these on my last script so I can't wait for next month I will either choose hikma or Rhodes..but I have never had any problems with hikma at qll... someone did tell me yes they changed names and a few inactive ingredients that them.. when ever I get stuck with q different generic I find myself going into withdrawal the first week or so..

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Re: Kevin (# 1)

I got taken off my morphine timed release meds because of all the hype about the opiate crisis. I have serious very painful illnesses. Multiple sclerosis, failed spinal surgery, diabetic neuropathy, fibromyalgia, just to name a few of the things wrong with me. There are eight people I know all of them taking Suboxone. Buprenorphine has been used as a pain medication for a long time. However nobody wants to except me as a new patient in order to get on the Suboxone for chronic pain. I am not a drug attic, I am physically dependent on opiates for my very quality of life. I have now been suffering almost 2 years trying to find a clinic or a doctor that will put me on Suboxone. I am not one of those people that are red flagged in their medical chart or anything like that. However I am a Medicare patient. One Pain Clinic here in my town who is supposed to be one of the leading Pain Clinic’s for miles and miles around actually told me that they could not except me as a patient because they didn’t think that I would be a good fit for their program. However a very close friend of mine in her early 20s has been jumping around from clinic to clinic staying on her Suboxone. When one drug treatment program runs out she switches to another. I see all these people taking Suboxone, some do to opioid One Pain Clinic here in my town who is supposed to be one of the leading Pain Clinic’s for miles and miles around actually told me that they could not except me as a patient because they didn’t think that I would be a good fit for their program. However a very close friend of mine in her early 20s has been jumping around from clinic to clinic staying on her Suboxone. When one drug treatment program runs out she switches to another. I see all these people taking Suboxone, some due to opioid abuse or abuse of other street drugs. And I literally have not been able to get a Suboxone clinic to open their doors to me and welcome me as a patient. The other reason I was given was you have too many medical illnesses and medical problems. It seems the only way I am going to be able to get into a Suboxone clinic is if I pretend I am a street drug attic. This causes me such huge anxiety and depression because I’m in so much pain I can barely get through the day. I’m suffering and I need someone to help me find a place to treat this horrible chronic pain. I have tried three Pain Clinic, One told me that because I had fibromyalgia nothing else mattered and all I needed was an antidepressant and all my pain would disappear. God. Another told me their program consisted only of yoga and exercise and cardio stuff all which I cannot do. Somebody could you please just give me some advice or just say a prayer that somebody will take me in. This opioid crisis me literally forced me to just end things myself and I don’t want to do that. Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you

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What do the pills look like? I've been on subutex and suboxone for 8 years now. I was on suboxone when they still made the orange stop sign shaped ones and then i was still on them when they quit making them and they came out with round orange ones with an imprint of a half moon. Now i got switched to subutex which i only know 3 kinds. They make the round 54 411 white pills, the orange football shaped ones with an imprinted half moon and they got these little white ones which i wont take, i hate them as they dont feel like 8mg. They say there's no cut in them. That's why they're so tiny but i gotta take 2 to compare to a regular white 54 411 subutex.

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Re: Janeway (# 5)

My sister ran into the same problem and she doesn't have half the things wrong with her as you do. To go on Suboxone she had to pretend to be an addict. At least in her mind she was pretending but between you and me and whoever else reads this which I'm sure it won't be her she is an addict. She abused every drug she ever got and that's the reason she kept losing them. At the same time they're legitimate chronic pain patients like you and I and fear of losing our meds are actually losing them and they don't seem to care at all. I don't know what they think they're doing but they're not helping anyone. I've already heard of suicides occurring because pain patients couldn't see any point in living with no quality of life left. Please, please do not do anything like that. I will surely pray for you. Don't give up. I wish I could give you more advice but I think I know about as much as you do at this point.

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I've been getting them for about 5 years and I don't think I've ever had an issue with Roxanne, nor anyone that I know. I have however, had can issue with that "high-tech" brand trash, and now I'm getting some made by "Rhodes" that ain't much to scream about either. Question for you-are you using anything else on top of these? If yes, then there's your answer.

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Re: Janeway (# 5)

I read half ur post and im replying to help u out. Instead of telling your dr u use suboxone for pain pills dont do that. Tell them u got addicted to opioids or pain pills and would like to take something to get off them bc u can cooperate with working and paying bills, and if u have to, tell them its hard to take care of everything when ur always getting withdrawals. Some dr's will make u go to a rehab for 3 days b4 they put u on their program but stop telling the dr u take them for pain bc their not used for pain. I know ppl that take them for pain bc they work but they're for opioid withdrawals so u gotta make it look like u got addicted to pain pills and u wanna get off them but the withdrawals are so bad.

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I only know 3 types of subutex. The small round white ones which suck, the bigger round white 54 411 subutex and the orange football shaped subutex that have a half moon on the one side. Do they make more than those 3 subutex?

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Charlene, can i ask u a question? What are the rhodes? Are they suboxone or subutex and what do they look like? I might ask my pharmacy to order me them if they're a new kind coming out.

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Re: Tylor (# 11)

They are subutex. The NDC # 42858-502-03 is for the 8mg Rb b8 and the 2mg NDC# is 42858-501-03 for the white to off-white marked Rb b2. I forgot to check if Rhodes has anything to do with suboxone because I don't take that one...but if you go to that site btodrems.com it has all the suboxone and subutex details listed and any information one would want to know. In all buprenorphine the main ingredient differs from one to the other. Most will say I think 8.64mg bup equivalent to 8mg. There are 2 that say only 8mg, that being the sun brand and the actavis orange half moon... They have 7 generics of bup..actavis has 8mg , hi tech has 8.64, hikma 8.64, Mylan 8.624 Rhodes 8.64, sun 8mg and teva 8.64 all say equivalent to 8mg. The only ones around me in Florida have sun, actavis, hikma and sun. I was shocked to notice I believe it was kaylan that actually had the highest amount of bup. I hope you find it. Let me know how you make out. Good luck.

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Re: Bobby (# 2)

I spoke to Rhodes Purdue customer service yesterday and they said they have ample supply. It's only whether the pharmacy is willing to contact their wholesaler to order it. That's the issue not availability. I am in San Francisco area and calling around. But in person is the only way due to robberies. Over the phone doesn't work here.

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Re: Davidjw1 (# 13)

I told my mom n pop shop to order them..(Rhodes). They had them in the next day. They even called me to thank me about suggesting to order. They didn't even know they were out..kinda strange since they had been out since 2017, almost a year now. I know they sell the buprenorphine for $4 a pill w/o insurance so they can make over $2.40 per pill. I have insurance through so my 120 pills cost $45/monthly. I have one pharmacy by me that charges $3 a pill without insurance.

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Re: Janeway (# 5)

Tell the dr. You want to detox using buprenorphine. Subutex or suboxone..I can tell you from great experience using both of them number one subutex is WAY cheaper than suboxone..and it also feels differently..its better feeling.. if you keep asking for it for pain use they will put you on the patch. And they are buprenorphine but a a way smaller dosage compared to subs...I have been on subutex since 2007...so if you ask for subs to detox you most definitely will not be turned down..but ack for subutex is better it has no naloxone in it

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Wait a minute is the o p using Suboxone with naloxone in it or Subutex- just straight buprenorphine?

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Um id like to comment on ur post. U cant go into the dr and say u wanna detox on subutex or suboxone bc thier going to tell u to go to rehab get urself clean and then after u complete the program u can come c the dr and he or she will put u on suboxone. Mostly the strips. Some dr.S use the pills but its hard to find a dr thatll give u strips and yah subutex is way cheaper and is a better feeling but u cant be put on subutext unless ur allergic to suboxone and for some reason u cant take the strips bc I was on suboxone 4 years and now im on subutex bc I cant take the strips and insurance companys only like to cover paying for the strips. They make me sick and dizzy where I fill like I'm gonna pass out. And another reason u could get subutex if u dont have insurance to cover them bc suboxone I do believe is 14.75 a strip and the subutex are only 6 dollars each and if ur on 2 or 3 a day thats alot to pay to be on suboxone but u cant ask dr's for wat they should put u on as thats a red flag and if u ask for a medication 99% of the time u wont get wat u ask for. Thats like me going and saying "i'm on anxiety medication can u put me on xanax bars"... So dont listen to that post. U have steps u have to take but there are some dr's if u go in and say u have a problem with herion or pain pills u wish to get off them, what can u do to help... He'll either put u on suboxone strips or tell u to go to rehab then when ur done he'll treat u. I had to do that to get on them and most dr's look at suboxone as a life long medication and some look at suboxone as a 1 to 2 year medication then bring u off them but my dr looks at subutex/suboxone as a life long medication but read this post if u want the 100% truth and most dr's dont use suboxone or subutex as a pain pill. It can be used for that but originally suboxone was made for alcoholics and they found out it helps with opioid addiction so they use it for opioid addiction now but their are some dr's out there I call them quack dr's that will give u suboxone when u go in if u say the right things. Dont ever ask a dr to be put on a certain medication bc u got a 100% chance of not getting that specific medication.

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Re: Davidjw1 (# 13)

Well I went to the Dr. today and she contacted Pharmaca Pharmacy to order my Buprenorphine since they carry the Westward Hikma 54 411 tablets. I am also happy to say they accept drug discount cards. So if anyone is looking for the 54 411 Westward 8mg Bupes contact them Pharmaca, they are nationwide. No more CVS or Walgreens for me.

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Re: Charlene (# 14)

Ur on 4 subutex a month... I thought u couldnt be on more than 3 a day? And also my insurance screwed me. They said they would only cover my suboxone pills if I got lowered in 6 months to 2 a day, so I had to do that to stay on pills bc I cant take the strips and when my insurance changed back my dr wouldnt up me back to 3 a day. How do u get 4 a day? Are they the 8mg pills?

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Re: Charlene (# 3)

I didn't care for all the fillers and orange flavoring of the activis brand but I felt ok on them. I would like to try the Rhodes brand but I'm not sure my CVS will say they can order them. I might have to go somewhere else to get them. I don't know if there as good as some people are saying but I miss the brand name and the old Teva brand so much I'd like to try the Rhodes Purdue ones. The worst brand I've tried several times unfortunately is the hi tech tiny arrow ones... Those things are awful, way underdosed and should be taken off the market. The sun brand is pretty bad as well. Low quality and underdosed.

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Re: Charlene (# 3)

I here you brother. My small town pharmacy has always gotten my Rhodes by request. This morning they gave me hikma we'll see. ????

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Re: Bobby (# 2)

Rhodes Deffinately. I just picked mine up and they're by hikma. We'll see I noticed already they don't last long under your tongue and a chalky taste. With Rhodes they would last 30-45 minutes if I did it right. Is the real Suboxone oranges gone. I could actually feal High and loved them.

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Re: Tracy (# 37)

You can get a partial refill of subutex since it doesn't have Naloxone in it. I just got 1 of the horrible Sun brand to get me through until I can pick up the Activis or Hikma brand from another location.

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Re: davidjw1 (# 18)

Too bad they went bankrupt and got bought by Walgreens.

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Re: Tylor (# 17)

Wow you are wrong on so many things i dont know where to start. I've been on subutex for over a decade now. Maybe what you say was true in your case, but you're using a broad brush to paint your picture. I started first on subutex, i remember my doctor saying to me "you don't have track marks and you don't seem like the type to try and inject your medication".

I was on mad amounts of opiates... 100mcg/hr fentanyl patches with either oxycodone or hydromorphone for breakthrough pain. I didn't get sent to rehab. I had my first visit, drug tested, talked a lot. Then I had to go home for 72 hours with cold turkey. Returned to my next visit 3 days later and had to take my first dose there at the clinic until it took effect.

Buprenorphine was never meant for alcoholics, period! That's just stupid. It's been a pain medication for over 70 years.

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Re: Kevin (# 1)

Everyone gets that 20% thing wrong. Each manufacturer is allowed to have a 10% variance in dosage. People get that 20% from saying you were on one generic medication that was 10% stronger than normal but then you get switched to another generic that is 10% weaker ... then technically you would have a possible 20% variance.

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Same, the 54 411 brand is just awful. I'm on 4 times a day 8mg and it's s***. I've had other brands now looking and calling but some of the ones I kept the bottle so I know what brands, but some have gone out of business or new brand name.

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Re: Tracy (# 37)

Isn't it crazy? I tried to lower my pain meds after knee replacements thinking I didn't need as much. But it wasn't enough and I was stuck waiting all month for a change. I'm too old to keep losing a month at a time of my life with this greed and nonsense. Government doesn't care unless you're wealthy or in power.

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Re: Alex (# 38)

I have had the same experience with the Hikma brand!

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Ive taken buprenorphine about three years with few problems but just went through two months of increasing nausea and vomiting and high pain levels after my pharmacy changed the brand to Hikma (I had no idea this was the cause until i switched pharmacies again and got yet a different brand.) My pain was under control again and the nausea slowly disappeared over the first few days of taking it. I plan to report this. I asked my pain doc and pcp but neither would fill an anti-nausea med for me. This has been a horrible and costly experience.

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