Taking Subutex And Percocet Together
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My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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372
kkh Says:
 
DagneyT: I think it is dose dependent as you said. 4 to 8mgs is a fairly low dose, and since there is no Naloxone in it, you are probably ok at that level. Any more than that? You are playing Russian Roulette. I was never on what would be considered a low dose of Subutex. When I was taking Subutex, I was on 28mgs+, and have gotten between 16 and 20mgs into me when the Precipitated Withdrawals happened. So obviously, with Subuxone, you have the antagonist of the Naloxone, PLUS the antagonist of the Bupe itself in there. With Subutex, it's ONLY the antagonist of the Bupe. So that's why you would be able to take a small about of Subutex without problems. Any more than 8 or 10 mgs though? I certainly wouldn't. That was ROUGH... nice user name BTW. Atlas Shrugged.

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371
DagnyT Says:
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It must be dependent on dose then. I have often taken Subutex after regular opiates with no problem at all. I'd take from 4-8 mg of Sub soon after dosing.

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370
kkh Says:
 
STEVE: My mind is completely blown by the fact that there are doctors out there who are actually prescribing full-agonist opioids right along with a partial-antagonist opioid like Bupe. Completely mind blown. And by the fact that so many people have no idea what they are talking about, and are posting things on here as if they were medical researchers or something. Insane. But the fact that there are doctors, people who are being trusted with people's LIVES, that really are this clueless is not just insane, it is down-right SCARY.

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369
Kiki Says:
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Steve, I have been on subutex for years and only subutex. I only recently started taking oxycodone with it because I am going through a miscarriage and need the extra pain management. The doctor prescribed double the dose he normally would because I have also been taking subutex. All I am trying to say is I don't get sick when I take oxy and subutex or the other way around. I never have, not even when I was just getting clean.

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368
Steve Says:
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Sorry your doctor is an i****. To take percocet and then suboxone is like wiping your ass before you s***, please excuse my language but damn that's the craziest thing I've heard out of all the posts. But anyways I wanted to let you know that it's come down to federal government regulations on pain medication due to the havoc it has wreaked in our country. So since doctors can only fill so many scripts of pain medication per month/year that they stay loyal to the patients who have been with them the longest and the rest of us get s*** on bc if they can't keep making a fortune on pain medication then they to devise another legal medication suboxone, subutex, zubsolv, etc....to make money so we have to deal with doctors just doing what they can to keep their job. So rather than educate the patient to what they're actually taking. Most doctors don't have the time (or at least they say they don't which we all know they do) to get to know their patients bc in my opinion most just simply don't care, they see it day in day out so they've become programmers. Your doctor just wanted to try and see if the suboxone would slow your cravings for percocet bc he can't prescribe you as much anymore once again due to regulations so sounds like he just wants to keep your business but doesn't give a s*** what you went through which is what he told you to do, that makes me furious. What a s*** bag, sorry you had to go through that. If you want off the percocet then wait until you start to have withdrawals and then take it accordingly. With too much you could get sick but on the right dosage you will be fine. Also remember if you are taking suboxone and then take your percocet it won't work. It will be a waste and damage to your liver for no reason. Hope that was helpful and hope you feel better. Good luck!! Oh and please find a different doctor.

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367
kkh Says:
 
KIKI: I am neither "mad" nor "confused". But you are wrong. You think that Subutex has no "opiate blocker" in it? The Naloxone being the "blocker"? Buprenorphine ITSELF is also an opiate blocker. It is a partial agonist-partial antagonist opioid. The "antagonist" part is the "blocker". So the DRUG ITSELF is a "blocker", so to speak. Once more, Subutex and Naloxone are BOTH "opioid antagonists". As opposed to "full-agonist opioids", which is what Oxys, Vicodin and all the other opioids we take to relieve pain are. These are facts. It isn't about "disagreeing" with you, you are simply mistaken.

So no, I am not "confused". I am a medical researcher, and I work with the leading Addiction Specialists in my area. I am fully aware of the differences between the two. I took Suboxone for about a week when I first started on Bupe. I couldn't tolerate the Naloxone and was immediately switched to Subutex. So besides that first week, I have NEVER been on Suboxone, only Subutex. These are facts. I really wish people would do more research before declaring things "impossible", before declaring things to be "facts". I was never on a dose lower than 24 mgs of Subutex for almost 6 years (doses between 24 and 32 mgs, which is the ceiling dose) and I also used very long acting opioids at the time. I was thrown into hardcore precipitated withdrawals from taking about 20 mgs of SUBUTEX, not SUBOXONE too soon after dosing that long acting opioid. SUBUTEX ITSELF can throw you into precipitated withdrawal because SUBUTEX ITSELF is a partial antagonist opioid.

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366
Kiki Says:
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Kkh.. I'm just saying you must be confused.. maybe you were taking suboxone instead of subutex. I have been on high doses of both subutex and suboxone for years and have never experienced withdrawal from the subutex.. jeez don't get mad because someone disagrees with you.

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365
kkh Says:
 
MOLLY APPLECAKES: People don't realize that Buprenorphine is a partial agonist/partial antagonist opioid. It is the ANTAGONIST part that sends you into withdrawal. Naloxone is also an opioid antagonist. They think as long as there is no Naloxone in the Subs, they are ok. NOPE. Bupe ITSELF will throw you into withdrawals. Now as you said, you could probably do 2, 4, even 8 mgs of Subutex and be ok. (there are obviously a lot of variables there) but any more than that, and you are gambling. I PERSONALLY went through hardcore Precipitated Withdrawals from taking 20mgs of Subutex too soon after opiates. Yet I am being told by people like KIKI that what I went through "just isn't possible".....um....yeah. So many people on here who have no idea what they are talking about, posting things as if they are the World's Foremost Authority. Every time I read another "authority" talking about how it "isn't possible" for Subutex to send someone into withdrawals, and I remember what I went through, I can only shake my head.

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364
Kiki Says:
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Today I took 8mg of subutex after getting administered dilaudid and morphine in the hospital and having percs at home and I am not having withdrawals at all.

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363
Kiki Says:
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Your receptors can't physically hold more than 24 mg of Buprenorphine at a time so you are wasting your meds if you are taking more than three 8mg a day. Just thought I should let you know.

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362
Kiki Says:
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Oxymorphone is also called Opana and they are very hard to get. Doctors don't like prescribing them because they are extremely strong and abused. The effects are also very short acting. Buprenorphine isn't strong in a way that makes you feel high.

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361
Kiki Says:
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You can't go into withdrawals from taking opiates with subutex. It just isn't possible, these people must be confused. You will get sick from suboxone if you take opiates with it, not subutex..Because suboxone has naloxone in it which pushes all of the opiates out of your brain receptors and subutex doesn't.

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360
Molly Applecakes Says:
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Yes, this is correct. When I was severely abusing Roxicodone, I chose to go to rehab. They kicked me out of one rehab (due to an insurance glitch), and sent me to a detox hospital in the hood. I saw a pediatrician- I had to pay him $500 in cash because he was out of network. They had no doctors. They were completely unaware (on an addictions/detox unit), of precipitated withdrawal. I was pursing my lips, refusing to take 24 mg of Subutex pills. They forced me, and I went into the worst withdrawal I had ever been in before. (I had taken strips many times after running out of Roxicodone, & always waited the 24-72 hours). However, people abuse Subutex pills more than strips. And I do think that the Naloxone blocker is stronger. When I used to take strips, I had to wait longer for opiates to work once I got them. With the Subutex pills, opiates worked much faster afterwards. But yes, BOTH send you into rapid withdrawal...

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359
kkh Says:
 
DEEK: I've not only lived it (30+ year opioid addict as well as med student/researcher), I've researched it and have had my fellow addiction specialists laugh at it. As for the rest of your response, maybe you could re-write it and actually make it coherent this time, because I have no idea what any of that means. As far as your previous post, I sincerely hope no one on here takes your bad advice.

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358
Mimikins Says:
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Also wanted to say I just had a nerve block Thursday so I feel worse than normal. AND I wish I didn't have to take meds because I know I'm using recreationally as well ad medically at this point. None of that matters, just nice being able to post to people who understand.

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357
Mimikins Says:
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I've been reading all these posts and don't quite understand everything. I am prescribed 30 mg oxy 3 x day. I have addiction issues basically cause I've been on these meds for 7 years. Because I tend to take too many, my bf took my script when he went out of town and only left my prescribed dose. Well of course I ran out, but I have an 8 mg bupe. If I take a tiny piece of it will I get deathly I'll?

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356
Deek Says:
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I never said it wasn't a blocked it's self and I have done what u said to-do plenty tines every reacts different. Back to simple science do one or the other. And u get sick take more and watch the withdrawal go away fast. I've lived it pal

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355
kkh Says:
 
DEEK: You can't "promise" anything, because you are just wrong. The BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF is an "opiate block", to you everyone's over-simplified terminology. Go ahead, I dare ya....do some really good, strong opioids, wait about an hour, maybe two, then take about 16 mgs of Subutex and then get back to me. Yet another person who thinks the Naloxone is the only thing that can send you into precips. The DRUG ITSELF is a partial antagonist, which is why it sends you into precips. Your "simple science" is so flawed, it's laughable.

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354
Allalone Says:
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That's not entirely true and that's how I've lost a few friends. When they relapsed they tried to take their usual dose which was entirely too much.

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353
Deek754 Says:
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Lol everyine has a different effect to this I know injecting either the tex or box iv will bypass the narcan and subutex has no nolaxone in it so I promise you didnt get sick from mixing it with opiates your gonna be really high especially mixed with a benzo I know from everyday experience. So alot people here are plum foolish if u got sick when you did have it mixed if u take more of the stripes the subonoxe will out do the other basically if u get dope sick from taking it. Take more cause your body has to be treated for the amount that witch you would abise simple science here

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