Taking Subutex And Percocet Together (Page 16)

My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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Kkh absolutely either can put you in withdrawal you have a little more leway with the subutex but like you I dont recommend taking anything with either im on suboxone now but I have a grown child who is on every and I mean every WAIT LIST within a 100 mile radius to get help with her addiction. it kills me when I hear people asking how long after they take their suboxone or subutex they have to wait to take their percs or opana. guys if your getting it legit and still using with no inclination to stop and are just using it to fill in the sicks or to fund your use step aside and let someone in who is trying to get a grip on life. I get so upset over this. I sit in my drs office and hear other patients talking and swapping info, making deals n such. those dont deserve a spot in a program. trying not to be judgemental but I know many addicts, very few of which are happy to be that way and we all make bad choices addicts or not but seem there's many out there who take up space in these clinics and ruin things for serious ones who seek help.. sorry bout the rant kkh. I do not disagree with you at all, you are absolutely correct.. it just makes no sense to me to mix any type of opiate with suboxone, subutex, or zubsolv (I think that's how its spelled) bupe is for recovery. And in some cases chronic pain conditions. God bless n lets hope the world opens its eyes and better accepts and understands this horrible disease of addiction.

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JAMES: Yes, it may not be as extreme with Subutex as with Suboxone because of the Naloxone not being in the Subutex (although it was pretty extreme for me) but it is more about the binding affinity of the Bupe than the Naloxone anyway. I just get so sick of seeing people who have no clue, on here talking about "you are fine without the Nalxone" etc. NO, no you are not. Or saying that if a person wants Subutex rather than Suboxone, it is only because they want to "keep using". You cant keep using with Subutex; believe me, I tried.

I am sorry your child is having trouble. I wouldn't wish this life on anyone. And as you said, it is truly a shame that not all people on ORTs take it completely seriously. But that, unfortunately, is the nature of the beast with addiction, ESPECIALLY opioid addiction, since it is so physical. Good luck to you and your child.

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Thanks kkh addiction is a beast and we are warriors to survive I do know some who request pill form or the subutex so they can use and you are so right it will be a very hard lesson learned for them the bupe its self will throw the precips on ya .I wasn't always so emotional on this subject but this is a vwry serious thing unfortunately many who dont know about addiction except what they read or perceive on their own wont understand until it rears its ugly head close to home I wouldnt with that on anyone but bottom line approximate wait time is 48 hours before you can use ANY opiate / pharmaceutical or street form after ANY bupe based drug. But even then I wouldnt recomend it everyones metabolism is different .. so nice talking with someone who takes this serios to n thank you for the good thoughts. God bless

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TASH, DJTRU: You are both misinformed. MAYBE you were on a small dose of Subutex and pain meds, MAYBE. But no, you can't just "mix Subutex and pain meds". Where are you getting your information? Subutex is not what they "give people who are still on pain meds"....what would even be the point of that? When starting Suboxone OR Subutex, you need to be completely clean from all other opioids. Buprenorphine itself IS a "blocker", for lack of any of you using the proper terms. Go take some opioids, then take a couple Subutex, then get back to me. Now as I said, if you are on a fairly small dose of both; first, these meds will leave your body quicker if on a lower dose, and second, Subutex not having the Naloxone will be less likely to throw you into complete and total precips, again if taking a small amount of Subutex and/or pain meds. But BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF is not a "typical agonist opioid", and is in fact an opioid ANTAGONIST, which have such a major binding affinity for your opioid receptors, it will completely and totally knock any and all agonist opioids off of said receptors and throw you into a s*** show. You don't have to believe me, it is just a FACT. It's not about the "blocker" (naloxone), it's about the Bupe ITSELF. The main reason naloxone is even in Suboxone is to keep people from taking it intravenously. All you *****s telling everyone that its ok to use Bupe with opioids are going to throw someone into a BAD RATTLE. But I suppose if anyone is stupid enough to believe you people, then that's on them.

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JAMES: Like this DJ TRU guy. "One has the blocker, the other doesn't, end of story!" Oh boy, not only is that not the "end of the story", it isn't even the RIGHT story. Unreal. You can break it to them, in scientific fact, and they will still be saying "no way dude!!" Because they have been able to take a Perc with a tiny dose of Subutex, hours apart, well that proves it! Not to mention the part about "lets see how we can take our Opiate Replacement Therapy meds, and get away with taking our dope at the same time!!" Besides the fact that I personally experienced precipitated withdrawals, the binding affinity of Bupe is a scientific fact, it isn't my opinioni! That is something I NEVER want to go through again! I thought I knew what "withdrawal" was all about, having been a 30 year+ addict....OMG. That was INSANE! You know how they say "climbing the walls"? I was LITERALLY climbing the walls, and banging my head against them, and begging my spouse to smother me with a pillow. The spouse started shoving Trazodone down my throat, and I FINALLY passed the heck out. Friggin TRAIN WRECK!

ONCE MORE FOR CLARITY: Buprenorphine ITSELF can and will throw you into precipitated withdrawals, whether it contains Naloxone or not. Of course there can be exceptions depending on how long you wait and how much you take of either substance, but these are facts, not my opinion. This also comes from my own research and two different doctors who are addiction specialists. One of these doctors was the Addiction Specialist for the Denver Nuggest NBA team. So people, be my guest, don't believe us, believe these amateurs, go for it! Take some good, strong, full agonist opioids like Fentanyl, Oxys. (not a Percocet, which is a LOT of Tylenol) Take your dose and then wait about an hour or two, and pop about 12, maybe 16 mgs of Subutex....please, by all means! I would LOVE to hear how that went for you! Ridiculous.

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I'm also on a wait list and yes, it truly irritates me to no end when I see people selling or trading their bupe. They either don't realize or don't care that there are people who take their recovery seriously and really need to be on a maintenance program in order to start rebuilding their lives and they are wasting a spot in a clinic or whatever. I hope everything works out for you and your daughter, James.

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One must be in moderate withdrawal from opiates before they can take any form of bupe, including subutex, otherwise you will experience precipitated withdrawal. It is NOT the naloxone alone that causes this. It is the buprenorphine.

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ZACH: Yes, exactly, and yet look at all the comments saying otherwise. It's just a medical, scientific, proven fact. Yup, what Zach said. These *****s are going to throw someone into a really bad time. Hopefully people on here won't believe their BS.

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You sound like you have some SERIOUS issues, anger issues being just one of them. Good luck with that.

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Sorry, my reply about having anger issues was in response to the following post by "kkh":

"JAMES: Like this DJ TRU guy. "One has the blocker, the other doesn't, end of story!" Oh boy, not only is that not the "end of the story", it isn't even the RIGHT story. Unreal. You can break it to them, in scientific fact, and they will still be saying "no way dude!!" Because they have been able to take a Perc with a tiny dose of Subutex, hours apart, well that proves it! Not to mention the part about "lets see how we can take our Opiate Replacement Therapy meds, and get away with taking our dope at the same time!!" Besides the fact that I personally experienced precipitated withdrawals, the binding affinity of Bupe is a scientific fact, it isn't my opinion! That is something I NEVER want to go through again! I thought I knew what "withdrawal" was all about, having been a 30 year+ addict....OMG. That was INSANE! You know how they say "climbing the walls"? I was LITERALLY climbing the walls, and banging my head against them, and begging my spouse to smother me with a pillow. The spouse started shoving Trazodone down my throat, and I FINALLY passed the heck out. Friggin TRAIN WRECK!

ONCE MORE FOR CLARITY: Buprenorphine ITSELF can and will throw you into precipitated withdrawals, whether it contains Naloxone or not. Of course there can be exceptions depending on how long you wait and how much you take of either substance, but these are facts, not my opinion. This also comes from my own research and two different doctors who are addiction specialists. One of these doctors was the Addiction Specialist for the Denver Nuggest NBA team. So people, be my guest, don't believe us, believe these amateurs, go for it! Take some good, strong, full agonist opioids like Fentanyl, Oxys. (not a Percocet, which is a LOT of Tylenol) Take your dose and then wait about an hour or two, and pop about 12, maybe 16 mgs of Subutex....please, by all means! I would LOVE to hear how that went for you! Ridiculous."

In which I said "You seem to have some SERIOUS issues, anger issues being just one of them. Good luck with that.", because I was appalled by their senseless and unnecessary, out of place, venom.

This is a place people come to for help. Take your hostile and indignant superiority complex elsewhere. Horrible attitudes like yours are why some people are scared to even ask life saving questions, questions with simple answers, and it is why some of those people end up making mistakes that harm them or even kill them. Shame on you.

OP, I had to make this second comment to clarify. I apologize. I did not want you to think I was addressing you, or anyone other than this "kkh" character, or whatever the name was.

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I'm a physician and an addict clean 6 yrs relaps then suboxone, anyway you are correct! In fact the naloxone (narcan) is an inactive ingredient due to liver metabolism. So only becomes active in IV form, so you cannot administer suboxone intravenously. That's it, no other reason. The buprenorphine is the active ingredient and is called an agonist/antogonist, anyway it binds very tightly to the mu receptors (morphine or opiate receptor) and blocks other drugs from binding, it binds tighter than any other opiate used. So yes it will straight up knock what ever drug you're taking off the receptors, which is a sudden change and will send you into withdrawal. So does not matter if suboxone or subutex and the junkie experts pretty much make stuff up. Anyway you're right but there will still be those street experts that will say I know cuz my cousins dog did this or when I was at the door house I did it this way.

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REALLY: I have no "anger issues" at all. I am just tired of seeing people come on here and tell people that using full agonist opioids with Subutex is ok, when it is not. I have been through Precipitated Withdrawals, and they are Hell on Earth. I certainly don't want to see someone else go through that because they listened to some *****n on here who does not know what they are talking about. Not sure why me saying that is such a problem for you. Not sure that I care, either.

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REALLY: And for your information, I have been on here for YEARS, and have PERSONALLY saved more than one person from making the same mistake as I did. So yes, I am serious about this. If you see me posting a serious reply regarding a serious issue as "venom", well I guess that's your problem, not mine. Many MANY people on here keep telling people that it is ok to use opioids right along with Subutex; THAT is going to do way more harm to people than anything I've said. THOSE are the people you need to be going after, not me. My comments were directed at them, which is why I actually addressed my responses to those particular people. I have had many people on here thank me for my advice. I don't have a "hostile and indignant superiority complex", but it sounds like you do. My advice has been GREATLY appreciated on here. These are serious issues, sorry if I didn't sugar coat my answers for you. And I'm not going ANYWHERE, I will continue to share my knowledge as a pre-med student, medical researcher and addict on here for anyone who needs it. I highly doubt that anything I have said on here has caused anyone to "make mistakes that harmed them or killed them", so land the plane on that one. Yes, I speak in real talk, sorry if you can't handle that. Maybe it is YOU that shouldn't be on here.

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SCOTT: Thank you Scott. Maybe people will actually believe it if they see a physician saying it. I just CRINGE when I see people on here saying "oh, it doesn't have the 'blocker' in it, so you are ok"....when it is the Bupe ITSELF that is the "blocker". And then this "REALLY" guy giving me a hard time because I don't sugar coat things. If he/she had ever been in Precipitated Withdrawals as I have, maybe he/she would be a little more forceful about it too. It was a completely horrific experience, and I would hate to see anyone on here actually believe these people and end up in a horrible rattle as I was. I am all over these forums, and I have helped countless people. That's just a fact. These are serious issues, and apparently I didn't sugar coat it enough for "REALLY". Like I care. I will continue to help people as best I can, and not worry about one whiner who got his/her panties in a wad.

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REALLY: I would like to thank you, though. Because you are such a whining, sniveling child, you went ahead and re-posted all that information I originally wrote YET AGAIN! Now maybe those who didn't see it the first time will see it and NOT be thrown into Precipitated Withdrawals! Thanks for that!

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You will not go into withdrawals, the narcotics will just be ineffective. It's true I tell ya. I've been taking both off and on since sub first came out. One must wait at least 72 hrs for the sub to be out of your system. Otherwise it's just a waste.

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DEB: That's if you take the percs AFTER the Suboxone. If you do it the other way around, take the Subxone too soon after the percs? That's when you can be in withdrawals.

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Hi, I've been taking suboxone, subutex and pain medication for many yrs. It used to work when I would first take the pain meds then the sub. However now it doesn't at all. In fact I have oxycodone 10's and I get nothing from them. Still have pain and feel absolutely nothing. I'm thinking it's because I've been on sub for so long. What do you think? I mean I would have to go without anything for like 2-3 days then take the pain meds. I'm not sure what's going on but they just don't work anymore.

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DEB: Sorry, just wanted to get it all straight; you are saying that the Oxys don't relieve your pain anymore? If that is the case, you have probably developed a tolerance. That's what happens with opioids, unfortunately. If you take a certain dose long enough, you stop getting the usual effects from them and have to take more. That would be my guess. Have you talked to your doctor about this?

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Hi, I believe it's because I have the sub in my system. I've been taking it and pain meds for many yrs and only in the past couple months have I noticed this. It's obviously frowned upon to take both, back and forth. Dr.'s tell me, one or the other. Before this I would take a pain pill in the morning, not wanting to take too many I would then take a sub after an hour or so. Pain free and feeling better. Not the case now. I do see my dr mon and the pain dr soon. I will discuss this. Thanks!

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