Dilaudid Lethal Dosage? (Page 2)

I am a stage IV cancer patient and member of an invitational research and survey type website.

Members primarily consist of other stage IV cancer patients, but in some cases, may be the caregiver of a stage IV patient.

A little over a month ago, a caregiver launched a blog-like diary of sorts. He states his wife has end-stage, metastasized, breast cancer. His postings started with news his wife had to be hospitalized when she began the dying process and indicating shut-down. However, many of his statements do not sound clinically correct or even possible. For example, after she was admitted to the hospice section of the hospital, he stated she emerged from days of a coma-like state to experience what he called a rally. This rally consisted of engaging in conversation with himself and hospital staff...only to sink into another coma-like state after being administered IV anti-biotics for a major infection due to compromised immune system (an extremely low, chemo-caused low white blood count). During this time, he also stated that both kidneys shut down...then...a week later, miraculously regained normal function. In still another posting, he describes she emerged from yet another coma-like state to devour a huge meal, although she had and was still on a PEG feeding tube!!! (All patients I know had to slowly acclimate over a period of several days to oral feeding with jello, puddings, non-spicy soups, etc.) He now states he has moved his wife back home where she can die in the comfort of familiar surroundings. Now at home, he described another coma-like experience, followed by yet another rally of low-level activity as if she had no health issues at all. Today, (July 23) his posting states she was in great pain the night before and her doctor increased her Dilaudid pain medication to 7mg/hour. If you had read between the lines of every post since this person started about 6-weeks ago, you'd quickly get the idea this person has the capacity to cause a faster than normal passing of his wife. For what reason?...so he can start re-establishing his social life! More than one prior comment had this type “social life” focus, though subtle. Far more troublesome are comments I feel would cause any perceptive person to wonder if he is capable of engaging in deliberate acts to cause his wife to expire sooner than later. In hopes a professional monitors this board, I have a quick question: Under her circumstances, does 7MG/hr of Dilaudid seem appropriate and correct...or...is does it sound more like an accumulative, lethal dose? I apologize for the length of this post, but am somewhat bothered by what may be the abuse (or worse) of a person that cannot defend themselves. Thanking you in advance, Nodawgs

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The so called coma like state may well be caused by 7mg/hr course of dilauded. That is a "death dose". If the size was changed our receptor sites blocked by drug interaction or periodic up regulation ... it's possible the patient may have regained lucidity from time to time. It doesn't sound like she regained any long term or substantial higher thought process or mobility. The body has many mechanisms to counter both body and brain death. Unless other drugs are administered concomitant, respiratory failure is not guaranteed. Neither is any other organ failure that isn't naturally occurring or the patient intentionally euthanized.

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How much didaudid do you have to take when you are a terminal patient

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I don't know if this is related, however, I, also, had swelling of my feet. It was so extremely horrible I couldn't walk and had to crawl to get to the bathroom. I was in excruciating pain. I thought it was my pain medication. My doctor increased the dosage. I was on Oxycontin and Oxycodone. At the time, I had been on pain medications daily for approximately 6 years. The swelling didn't happen often and for short periods of time, 2-6 or 7 days. It would gradually go away for months. My doctor didn't show too much concern (I just moved to the city and he was my PCP, not a Pain Specialist). I didn't live in that city long and moved back to my hometown. I went back to my PCP, who was my Doctor for many, many years, and back to my Pain Specialist, whom I had been a patient of since diagnosed with cancer. My pain is a result of said cancer and the damage it caused to my Optical Nerve and facial nerves. My PCP began running diagnostics and my Pain Specialist changed my pain medications to Opana ER and Percocet. Even with the med change, I continued to suffer from my feet swelling. My Pain Specialist didn't believe it was caused from the Pain medications. My PCP discovered I had Hypothyroidism. With this condition being treated with medication, I have not suffered swelling of my feet since!!!!

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WELL SAID!!! AMAZING!!! I just watched my father, the heart and glue of our family, die in horrific pain. I do not believe he "passed away," for that would have been peaceful. I believe he "died," for that was filled with excruciating and horrific pain every second of his final 6 days...that was how many days we had left with him after his brain surgery to remove a tumor found and was told after his surgery by the Neurosurgeon that "he was NOT dying, that he was NOT going to die." However, to say we had 6 days would not actually be accurate for on the 4th day post-op my father went from being coherent and having conversations with his family and friends to being able to say only 2 things..."hurt" and "help me up." He, also, became paralyzed on the left side of his body, a chance he knew was a risk of the surgery but willing to take because his other option was to go into a coma. NEVER in all his life has my father spoken of killing himself. For the very first time he begged the doctors and nurses to give him something to make him go to sleep and never wake. He begged my mother, his wife, to take him home so he could use his own gun to take his own life. A retired Army 1SG (First Sergeant, E8) of an MP (Military Police) Company, Vietnam War Veteran, Operation Desert Storm, survivor of multiple cancers, the strongest man I have ever had the honor of not just knowing but to call him Daddy...brought down to begging to end his life only to end the Pain. A man who lived for his wife, daughter, 2 granddaughters and grandson. He said his life revolved around us, especially for his youngest granddaughter who was born not only prematurely but, also, with a Cleft Lip and Palate and fought to survive her Qst week of life because she continued to lose weight. She was special to him and him to her. While he was still coherent and communicating, he asked for her while in the ICU for 5 days. However, she refused to leave his side except to eat and sleep. By Friday afternoon, day 5, he was being transferred to a local Hospice House where we lived. 14 hours and 45 mins, from the time my brave and strong father was admitted to the Hospice House to his time of death. While I miss him dearly words can NOT describe, I am thankful that his fight is over and he his now pain free.
Having similar medical issues as my father I understand and know how much I wish for my time to be peaceful and pain free. I suffer from pain every day for I am not as strong as my father and take pain medications daily. Too watch a person who was strong die the way my father did...words can not express my fears. I only know that we, as free citizen, should have the right to choice how we want to go!

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Your post just made me feel like you understand what I am going through. I never reached out on the Internet, I just got my first tablet in May, social networking for the first time too. How do we go on with pain? Nobody knows but one who's walked in our shoes. Thought suicide but too scared and too guilty with 2 kids, but at least mt doc says wtf do we do with you. Reply to me if you feel like sharing a similar s*** storm, lol.

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Thanks for all the input. I have chronic pain and was considering cutting my dose of 20mg a day and stocking perhaps 5 mg a day for 6 months to yield about a gram (900 mg). To provide an exit strategy. In light of this forum, it appears too many factors to ensure success. Let alone if this is a sufficient dose. I dont understand why suicide is so taboo....We treat our pets with greater compassion than ourselves. The truth is dead patients don't generate costs. So let the suffering continue...."AT ALL COSTS".

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Clarification: tramadol IS a narcotic pain reliever. It is not scheduled by FDA like say morphine et al but chemically and medically, it is a narcotic (opiod) related pain reliever.

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Dilaudid will come up just like Lortabs in your U/A.

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I too suffer with very bad fibromyalgia which among other issues comes with non stop pain for me. I've tried all the norm meds for fibro with no success. I also found out during a surgery that I have a high tolerance and process pain meds and others faster than norm.? Normal. It takes me 8 mg every 6hrs to just be able to move and do best with pain still around a5-6 on 1-10 scale of pain. I'm so......very tired of living in pain always and loss of who I was to this is killing me. I live alone had to move away from any family or friends just to be off streets . I had to live homeless without any income for 2yrs in pain trying to just get hr to hr. It really sucked. I'm blessed now with my ssdi now and can pay for a place to live but not where I had my doctors or friends / family. Unfortunately I have tried with no success (yet) 3x suicide attempts cause pain and depression from all has gotten to much to handle alone and now not much help. Life is only good if u can live it. But when the gov gets involved and ur forced to move outa area and try to get help. well haha, I found out the answer isn't good. The only thing I have right now is having to drive or get driving 600mi+ to my home town to get refill on my meds. Which without I'm bed ridden without help. I'm trying everything I can to get help and to lower or get off the pills . but cause of all the trauma from move etc. All I got was ptsd now? Now i m just waiting day to day to hopefully die off sooner so the pain and other health issues I've got too take me away. April or mays edition of neurology now has a very good article on chronic pain people like us. It says that if we get the proper medical care for pain we live and without we don't do good. But now with gov taking meds away or restrictions scaring doctors I may lose now even the few I need now. Also I'm not a druggie like some say cause I have to take meds now to function all prescribed correctly . I just don't get enough to kill all the pain off. Only now about 60-70%. Myself I just hold on barely and pray more. If gov would just let doctors do they're jobs I wouldn't be suffering hrly. Unfortunately suicide is now back on the table thanks to the government playing doctors now. Best of luck to all.

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I hope you're in a peaceful place whether here of heaven. Thank you for posting such a detailed description of your experience. Im not physically ill. I came on to find out how much di lauded to take to end my life. I've suffered depression my whole life, and have reached the point of giving up. Reading this makes me sad. Here I'm thinking to end my life, and people are suffering greatly, and bravely walking through hell barefoot. I want to live too but I don't want to hurt anymore.

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What you described happened to a friend of mine. He told me all opiates will cause edema in high doses and said he was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney failure. Lower your dose and your kidneys will wake up from their slumber and do their job to put that fluid where it belongs: Into your bladder and out of your body naturally. Do it before its too late and let your body heal and straighten itself out.

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Lorcets metabolize in your urine as hydrocodone, dalaudids metabolize as hydromorphone. Chances are ya took a Dalaudid, maybe w/o knowing.

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I have 15 levels of my spine fused and am now faced with C1and C2 compression after having c3 to T3 fused 2010. Problem is my arms and legs have severe nerve damage and my pain level is in the range of 4 to 10 throughout the day. If not for dialysis, I don't know how I could cope. I have limited myself to 6mg every 8 hours to minimize my dependency on the drug and fight myself to keep a the lowest dose possible and still function since 2010. I don't want a high, only to minimize my pain. It's to easy to just keep upping the dose, you need some will power and must face the fact that you are going to be in pain. To cope, keep your mind as active as possible and it takes your mind off the pain for awhile.

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i believe the spouse gave up befor the sick spouse. maybe he wanted to end the pain. but who is to decide. not him the spouse but god himself had to the right to decide. the healthy spouse was money hungry and though of financeses before his wifes life

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Coping with pain,
It's a struggle ever day to deal with pain that's in the range of 5 to 10 on a daily basis. If it were not for dilaudid, I don't know how I could deal with the severe pain from 15 levels in my spine fused. Now, C2 and C3 are causing real vertigo problems that I just have to be very careful and deal with it whenever I lay down and get up. I worry that one day I will just fall over and severely injure myself in the fall since my neck is fused with metal rods from C3 to T3. My only remaining movement is in C1 to C2 and C2 to C3, so any fall could be fatal. As they say, life goes on and you deal with whatever comes your way. The bottom line is I am still alive, happy in life and feel that I can continue to deal with the pain as best I can. Because I in my mind 60's, I try to keep the dilaudid dose at as low a level as possible to leave myself some room for adjusting the dose as my condition gets worse. I take 6mg every 6 hours an this seem to just take the edge off and keep my pain level at about 5, which is just about the best I ever see. Mornings are the best time for me until about 2:00pm, then even with the dilaudid, I am still in severe pain about 50% of the time. But that's were I am staying so I have room to adjust the dilaudid as I get older, God Willing. Anyways, for you people out there who are coping with severe back pain, please use as low a dose as possible to cope soj your body doesn't start to lose its response to the pain medication, so please DON'T OVER MEDICATE!!!

Jack

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Dear Freiend- I have been on and off narcotic pain meds since I was hit head on in a high speed accident. My legs shattered and a foot reattached - plus multiple trauma injuries. Dosage should be considered when a patient has been on me medication for a long time- body weight and what other medications are on board. Kaduna is expensive- far too much for me- so EXALGO- E R dialysis has helped adequately. 16 mg every 12 hours and 4 mg dilaudid every 4 hours is what I take. This is not enough. I know you have built an immunity to narcotics- and I understand doo toes are not covering chronic pain adequately- I know. I live with it every day. You need to talk to your doctor- one suggestion: Switching opioids Helos. The body isn't familiar with the new drug and the neurotransmitters in the brain are not absorbing the drug so quickly- So try switching to a different drug and Tell your doctor that you cannot stand the Jain!!! I understand it- I wish you the best outcome for a horrific problem!

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My mother was a dialysis patient she hit her head after a fall and was given tramadol then dilaudid 5min in she coded coma and die. What went wrong.

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7 mg an hour is too high of does you won't be able to comprehend anything I mean if your in hospice then ya by all means that's a good dose. But to get 3mg every two HR is more appropriate I've had alot of surgery on my stomach and waking up with big scars and staples I only received 2mg Q 4hrs it's a very strong opioate and I believe the strongest so the come off of it is hard as well as getting used to it will happen all in all just be careful

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I've been on Dilaudid for a few years. Dilaudid only comes in 2mg, 4mg and 8mg. To do 7mg per hour she would have to do 3 pills of the 2mg then a half of a 2mg pill. Seems like a lot of work for her to take 7 mg per hour, why not just do the 8mg pill. I'm not sure what a lethal does would consist of, everyone is different. About 5 years ago I tried to take my life so I took 28 4mg dilaudid pills and around 60 50mg tramadol pills. Yes, I kind of passed out/fell asleep, woke up 6 hours later and I felt like a train hit me but I didn't die so I don't know what a lethal dose would be.

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Jo John
Yes that's fairly common once you become opiate tolerant the lethal dosage level is so tremendously high as to one cannot procure the amounts needed for this purpose. It's so sad chronic intractable pain patients almost always require some form of physiological support as a compendium therapy. So often professionals are oblivious to this fact.Many times secondary issues of substance abusers magnify this condition.I speak from painful experience . For those of you out there suffering help is available do not fear reaching out for assistance people truly do care.Just ask for help if they fail to hear you SCREAM OUT LOUD.Shame prevents so many of us from receiving the care that's currently available.Wishing you all the very best for a pain managed day...

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