Bendectin And Birth Defects (Page 11)

I took this drug in the 1970's while pregnant. Am looking for the side effects to the babies. Drug has been off the market for many years. Not sure on correct spelling. Used for nausea and vomiting during pregnancy. Thank you for any help you can send me. Sincerely, Dana.

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emtridoc, yes the brain certainly is an amazing thing, but we've only got the human brain with which to analyze itself, sans panspermic assistance which, if one thinks about it, might not be so 'far-fetched' [pun intended] as possibly thought c'OZ' most heretics are usually considered to be 'off the planet' anyway. Shades of: "Physician, heal thyself!"

The entire human body per se is amazing due to the fact that it can, and in actual fact does, in many cases, repair itself without any external assistance. The 'placebo effect' boggles the mind [and body?] somewhat too! 'Magical thinking' does also wh_im'manently 'conjure up' thoughts of the Rosenthal/Pygmalion [and Hawthorne] effect writ large.

Wendy's post #200 evinces the benefits provided in remaining positive (and 'postive'[sic], like shan). Wendy's son Lee was born a special child c'OZ' methinks he's got a special Mum [Mom] like mine was. Good luck to you and yours too Wendy!

emtridoc, you may be interested to know of, if you don't already, 'Muphry's [sic, not Murphy's] Law' [Wiki's good], and expand upon its import somewhat along the lines of other concepts, like medicine and/or science. Or even courts of law, whether they're adjudicating matters involving suspect teratogenic drugs or otherwise. I once heard a female Chief Judge [not Judge Judy] of the District Court scolding two lawyers [prosecutor and defence] regarding the court listings. She wasn't happy with the actual date that they'd agreed on between themselves c'OZ' she felt they were extemely tardy in bringing a particular long-lived case before her to be finalised. So she told them in no uncertain terms that a particular date was to be the day of the hearing, "or watch out!" The trouble was that the date she mentioned and recorded [angrily] happened to be well after [about 2 months later in fact] the date that they had initially proposed, and it was a very timid defence counsel who rose about a full minute later to inform his 'learned' judge of the blunder! He could well have opted to remain silent and use the extra 2 month's time granted [and now on official record] to clear his heavy workload but perhaps he thought that if he didn't tell the judge first then perhaps his colleague may have found some gumption to do so! Oh what a tangled web we weave!

Now where's that vigil shot off to again? Did anyone see which way it went?

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My daughter has hair loss the past 14 years..I took benedictin in 1973 & 1974..very slow in school as well..low self-esteem..My son also became ill with depression..can't hold down a job..neither one of them can function normally since 14 years ago..they are 14 months apart in age..my son appeared to be smart until 1983..then went anti-social overnite..

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I delivered a son in 1979. He, unlike his other siblings, has Asperger's, depression, anxiety, severe back pain (that they can't yet diagnose what is causing it) for which he takes a lot of Class 2 medication. He also has Schizophrenia. I want the company that made Bendectine to remunerate my son for all of the sadness and pain this has caused him. I took NOTHING else during this pregnancy.....no coffee, no alcohol, no smoking, no aspirin, no Tylenol, no decongestants, no antibiotics, no antacids......NOTHING EXCEPT FOR BENDECTINE!!!!

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Millie & Betty Jill, thanks for your posts. I'm not sure how many posts you two girls et al. may have read but I think it's imperative, for starters, that we work on dispensing with not only the term 'Birth Defect', but also that too of 'Congenital Deformity', c'OZ' they both imply that the 'abnormality' commenced only at birth, and we know that's a load of horse manure. Birth is a most wonderful and momentous occasion, ergo, its epoch and the honour of both mother and baby/babies, not forgetting the father and the rest of the extended family and friends, is worthy of far more respect than just attempting to suggest in any way whatsoever that the newborn[s] changed from being normal, in the womb, to having a lifelong [in many cases] deformity/disability, which only magically began at birth. It's not good enough. Nice try by those who think that the ploy's gone through to the keeper, but no cigar!

Millie, look up the meanings of both "idiopathic" and "iatrogenicity", with 'iatrogenicity' [loosely, a doctor's/therapist's "bedside manner"] appertaining to your son's social welfare inter alia. Hope it helps.

I wonder what the statistics are for Caesarian section-delivered babies having deformities that weren't in any way caused by the actual delivery per se?

I'm of the firm belief that the sought answers to these abnormalities will come to light when someone mentions some simple thing[s] that's not yet been taken into account. It's probably been staring us in the face for eons. Just like when, many, many years ago, doctors who'd been dissecting cadavers, for anatomy/pathology study, would then go and perform internal examinations on pregnant women and also deliver babies without having first scrubbed-up with disinfectant. They'd then return to the cadavers...and then guess what? Yep, you guesssed it, back to that ol' delivery room if someome needed a 'hand'! How long did it take before they worked that one out? I'll bet it wasn't solved overnight! Mustn't rush these things y'know!

That vigil and me...we're on first name terms now, which will increase my workload somewhat c'OZ' I'll now have to try to maintain that too! Considering the names I used to call it [vigil] behind its back, I thought I'd done my dash, but it just goes to prove that anything's possible...and that no one's beyond redemption. Not even me! Things are starting to show some promise!

We really need a specific name [term] coined in honour of all those babies born [or stillborn] with any type of abnormality thought to be occasioned by teratogenic drugs. This name could then be hyphenated, if thought efficacious, with whatever drug, or company [if the company was found to be at fault, or pleaded "mea culpa"] thought to be the cause of the problem. Shades of: Give a drug...err...dog a bad name...and it sticks! Does anyone have Michael Moore's number handy?

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In 1978 I took this drug and my daughter had a floppy valve in her heart, she also has Scleroderma. I took bendictine in 1979 which was purchased as an over the counter medication. My next daughter was born with a hole in her heart and a very blue leg. My next pregnacy in l983 the drug was a precription medication and my son was also born with a hole in his heart. By 1985 my next pregnancy the drug had been removed from the market and my baby had no problems. I definitely think that this medication is responsible for the medical problems. We were also part of a study done at the Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto however never heard any results.

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Sandy, if possible, check to see if you [or anyone that you think has the acumen] can obtain any info regarding that study's results. Don't forget that there's always people with the expertise and desire to research these matters, but don't know of the need to do so, and they especially need be granted the imprimatur [where personal and confidential patient information's involved] from those so afflicted, or their parents/guardians, to undertake the research-role on the behalf of those looking for answers, and perhaps compensation. You could also post any salient info that you remember, regarding the study, or from any documentation you might have kept. Whilst at it, It may also be of worth to find out just who [or rather, what, like a pharmaceutical company perhaps, and/or government even, as they do some very f_underhanded(pun intended)things at times too!] funded it, and of course why they undertook to do the study. It seems very strange that they didn't choose to, diligently, keep all persons that were invoved in the study, apprised of any outcome. Perhaps they didn't deem all participants, or just some, as being worthy of such, and thought it best to just throw the baby out with the bathwater. Very strange protocol indeed! It's not much wonder that these researchers have trouble finding willing participants for their studies! By not maintaining contact with you Sandy they may well have done themselves an investigative injustice, that's of course if their intentions were honourable and above board!

Sometimes the reason for these things [studies] is not for the benefit of those that they study. Even in this day and age. Sometimes the studies are deliberately done only half-heartedly, or by persons known not to have enough skill and/or intent to find anything, and then whoever is in charge of the pseudo-study can say, "Yep, we did a very intensive study, spent heaps of time and money, and came up with nothing at all that could point the finger at that particular drug or method of procedure. And we used our very best people too!"
"Yeah right!"
This is not to condemn, or impugn in any way, those many persons who've done, and still do, on an ongoing basis, their utmost to eke out any causation for the myriad abnormalities, inter alia, abounding.

It would be the same as contracting me, on a shoestring budget, to put man on planet Pluto in two [2] years time. Even with AU$100 trillion [remember, the exchange rate is in our [Aussie] favour ha!] it'd still be a shoestring budget if we're talking Pluto as being the destination. It'd be cheaper and easier for me to build another Pluto just behind the moon and try to convince everyone that Pluto had assumed a new orbit...just to help out!

Sandy, because the study was in Toronto, I'm presuming that you're Canadian. Perhaps not. It's just that I thought the drug was sold under the brand name of Diclectin in Canada, Bendectin in the US, and Debendox in the UK and Australia. My dear departed mum took Debendox here, in Western Australia, circa 58+yrs ago.

I've just been re-reading two old newspaper clippings about young Chris [now 32yrs old]. His mum, June, took debendox for seven [7] months of her pregnancy with him. He was born with exactly double the deformity of me, being, no ears, and two [imperforate ear canals]. Chris was the first person in Australia to be fitted with a high-tech Swedish hearing implant. When he was 18 months old doctors drilled a hole in his skull where the opening to his right ear canal should have been and lined it with flesh from his arms and legs. If he has kept all of his prosthetic ears made for him over the years then I'd say he's got more of them than a landslide president got votes! Chris also spent the first few weeks of his life in hospital because of convulsions.

The newspaper article says that: "Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals made an out-of-court settlement of $147 million in the United States for claims brought by 765 children whose mothers used the drug. However , the company has admitted no liability for the malformations." - At least there's no mention of a 'subterfugal' "Birth Defect" or "Congenital Deformity" in the article. It article actually says that:

"The drug [Debendox] was supposed to have been withdrawn from sale last year [1978] in response to hundreds of allegations in the United States that the drug caused deformities in the unborn children of the mothers who took the drug during pregnancy." And very well put too.! At least that journalist [Diana Callander, bless her]knows how to report the facts as they actually exist[ed] and not allow herself to be hoodwinked and start prattling on about "Birth Defects, Congenital Deformities, and suchlike "!

Phew, I might just ask that vigil if he/she wouldn't mind monitoring him/herself for a bit whilst I go fetch some sustenance. Back soon...well, it'll be SOMETIME this millenium anyway!

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You may have missed something yes. I can say that bendectin caused every unpleasant issue in my life, and I have yet to see a single solid test or case study that proves ANYTHING at all so my point is.... These pill manufacturing companies and the countries allowing them to sell them as a medication really need to stop and listen. The comments on here alone tell me something, they tell me that the benefits do not out weigh the long term (not always visible at birth) effects.

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i took benditine in 1979 when i was expecting my daughter. she has Aspberger's Syndrome. she has better than normal hearing. she has extra nerves in her teeth. she is lactose intolerant. she can not eat food additives especially aspertane and msg, if she eats something wrong, she throws up. she does well on an organic vegan diet. she has never been able to drive and could not ride a bike until she was 7. she has anxiety, depression, insomnia, constipation, and muscle cramps. the symptoms go away when she eats only organic fruit and vegetables. she also has to take fish oil, B vit.'s and vit D. i was afraid to take drugs when i was expecting, so i only took a half dose, which only took the edge off my severe morning sickness. i stopped taking it after 4 months.

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Shannon and Hannah, When you say you've yet to see a study that proved anything you mean you've yet to see a study that proved what you want it to prove. Because all the science points to no association. And there have been many, many studies looking from all different angles. You ignore all the evidence to the contrary of what you belive. But if it makes you feel better to have someone to blame, ok. But heroin addiction, poor school performance, antisocial behavior, asperger syndrome, birth defects, club feet, alcohol abuse, bad hair and just about anything else that people have tried to lay at the feet of bendectin on this site occur every day all over the world before, during, and since the introduction and removal of the drug. In fact many occur more commonly now.

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Ivy, I'm very sorry indeed to hear of yours and your daughter's tribulations. I'm wondering if she's ever seen a gastroenterologist and/or had an endoscopy etc. to see if something's amiss in that area. She could have something like GERD, and if so, a regular dose of a prescribed 'proton pump inhibitor' [like Rabeprazole] may ease her discomfort somewhat. It's worth a try if she still has tummy troubles now and then. Raising the legs at the head of the bed on some bricks or blocks of wood helps to prevent reflux during the night. Any spicy or acidic foods can play havoc with the digestive process too, and eating large meals isn't really wise either, at any time, but especially too close to bedtime. Your daughter might be able to drink soy milk instead of cow's milk. All the very best to you both from Perth, Western Australia.

emtridoc, I think you forgot to mention corns, colic and chillblains in your last post. We mustn't rule anything out that can be listed, and more than likely will be. Hope springs eternal! I tend to be severely afflicted at times with 'tongue in cheek' syndrome which, strange as it may seem, doesn't ever "leave me" with a nasty taste in my mouth nowadays...c'OZ' it's a constant corroborating companion of mine, just like that vigil...verbatim.

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ILP, you always manage a good sense of humor and fair approach! Consider corns, colic and chilblains added. Halitosis, too

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Haven't posted since March, but more 'conditions' noted on neighbor child other than previously (March) posted--abnormal ear formation, tongue-tie, lactose intolerance and problems with prescription drugs (very quickly 'dependent' on opioid). As baby, given ProSoBee (soy formula) for gastro problems--doc stated AFTER baby 3 months old DX as "colic"--Rx'd phenobarb and resolved quickly. Seems like there are an awful lot of 'coincidences' from mothers who have taken Bendictine for it to be just a 'coincidence'? Oh well, haven't caught up with all posts since March of this year, so have a lot of reading and 'catching up.' God Bless All and hope we all can, eventually, learn the truth about this drug of dubious, to say the least, reputation and that if proven to be cause of all of this misery to so many children and their families, then some kind of consideration/compensation for same be realized. But, until then, sure won't hold my breath!

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emtridoc: I KNOW that Bendectine caused my son's
developmental delays, etc..... All of your comments
lead me to believe that you are a "plant" by the
drug company to try to get us to back down.
I'm not buying it. The joke about Bendectine being
blamed for everything including halitosis is totally
disrespectful for all that we have endured.

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Betty Jill,
You can believe what you want, but I have no relationship with any pharmaceutical company. I'm a physician and when I was looking up some information on bendictin for a friend I stumbled across this site. While I recognize the grief and hardship when one has a child or loved one who suffers and often the need to find someone to blame, I was dismayed with the naive approach to causation: "I had two children, one while on bendictin with birth defects, the other without and healthy, therefore it must be bendictin". What if one were born at night and the other during the day? Did daylight cause the birth defects? Of course you wouldn't think so, but it's statistically as likely b/c it's been studied and birth defects occur at the same rate in women who never took bendictin as those who did. And birth defects occur at the same rate since bendictin was pulled from the market as they did when bendictin was on the market and widely used. Of course you should ask the question about causation - never seek and you will never find - but when the list grows to include very nearly every blight (ok, I don't remember if halitosis was on there, but opiod addiction, "meanness", antisocial behavior, bad grades, hair loss, schizophrenia, depression and "every bad thing that has happened to me") then there is some serious denial going on. Disrespect? It's disrepectful to everyone who has worked hard to overcome many of life's dificulties to throw down "every bad thing" at a phantom bully and disrepectful to acuse me of being a shill when I have devoted the greater part of my adult life in the service of others, traveled to Sri Lanka during civil war following the tsunami, Haiti following the earthquake, and the Gulf Coast following Katrina. When worldwide disasters occur and are reported on the news my son has said more than once "does this mean daddy has to go away again?" I offer my services regularly at free clinics and high school athletics so that the kids can play. I think the practice of medicine is a privlige: "reach into darkness so that you may pull others into the light". My wife thinks I'm a fool for trying to bring a little education to the discussion, but I recognize that many people on this site are hurt, confused, and struggling for answers. Lucid discussions and inquiry are appropriate and encouraged. But if the evidence and answers don't fit your view of the flat earth then yell heretic.

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Good Doctor........my humble apologies for only seeing the earth as flat and congratulations for all of your unselfish and commendable service to the world using your skills. You are truly a servant of the world, and thank you. My husband and I are just mere Doctors of Music, but of both extended families (14 siblings between us) my son is the only one who has ever had any bad situation and I was the only one who took the drug......and NOTHING ELSE......not even antacids. Some day I hope to find out what is causing all of his pain and Aspergers. But don't worry, I won't bother you again.......or anyone else on the site. Congratulations for all of your good works and deeds. I was just a humble teacher for 35 years who tried to make kids feel like they could do anything, despite their crummy family situations......and guess what.......they did!

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Gee, guess it took awhile to get that wonderful drug, Darvon, off the market---the one that was so safe and approved by that illustrious organization, the FDA, populated with, purportedly, the most intelligent members of our species (with the exception, of course, of a couple of posters here). And, we do know that all of these studies mentioned were squeaky clean and performed with the utmost degree of integrity--right? All I do know is that this drug was pulled and pulled relatively quickly, ....considering. I guess what I am trying to say is that not one of us can say for certain that Bendectine did not cause any or all of the varied problems/symptoms many posters here have discussed. Perhaps, in the future, we may be able to totally discount this drug, but because I am aware of the many 'shenanigans' that big pharma has been involved, along with their many well-paid accomplices, 'some of us' may want to refrain from the subtle and not-so-subtle condescending jabs at us feeble-minded sheep with less than genius IQ's, such stunningly brilliant command of the English language and million-dollar vocabularies which although may impress some, are, at the same time, very likely wearing quite thin for the rest of the contributors of this forum. But, then again, I may be mistaken. God Bless!

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It's well reported that every drug has a known side effect[s], yet not all people taking exactly the same drug, in exactly the same dosage, for the exact same length of time, report having the declared side effects, or any new side effects that may arise in certain other people. Some people have allergic reactions to many different things, drugs included. Even to placebos! I think that there's some, possibly many, pregnant women who could take Bendectin till the cows came home and have no problem with it, yet others, who may only take it for a very short while will have much problem with it indeed. Then of course, there's bad batches of otherwise safe drugs/serums that have been released onto the market causing damage before they're pulled, or in some cases, not pulled at all until stocks run out. Some serums were found to have not been kept at the right temperature prior to their innoculation etc., and when administered, caused much damage, but not necessarily in all recipients. I personally think that certain drugs, not unlike Bendectin, are directly responsible for many deformities, inter alia, of myriad kinds, but not all deformities, or all other problems.

I would be very interested to know if 'every' [yes, every] expectant mother who took thalidomide produced a deformed baby. I could be wrong but I don't think they did.

If it's known proved beyond all reasonable doubt, and accepted, that all of them who took thalidomide didn't have a deformed child then what does that tell us? If the number of women who took thalidomide--but had no problem--is high, [but not necessarily greater than those who took it and had the babies with, in some cases, severe deformities] can we really rule one way or another that a certain drug does or doesn't cause abnormalities right across the board. No, of course we can't. Many decisions in this world are merely abitrarily imposed. It's exactly the same as in a court of law where the judge tells the jury of twelve [12] persons that he/she, the judge, can accept ten [10] against two [2] in order that the matter may be dealt with and put to bed, but this doesn't make it, the finding of the court, right or wrong. It just provides the opportunity for future cases to step up to the plate, and take their chance at having a swing at the already swinging-back-and-forth scales of justice. So in effect, the jury's really always out in perpetuity, but the judge makes a finding that he/she is permitted to do under the rule of law. But many times they [the judges] mess up, case in point, the well-known song: "That's the night that the lights went out in Georgia!" This is why we have, in some countries, many avenues of appeal through the courts, and it's proved very necessary that we have them too, c'OZ' many trials have been bungled and biased beyond compare, and the situation ain't about to differ anytime soon, so don't hold your breath, whether you've got halitosis or not, but do hold out hope, c'OZ' there's many of us that do, and for many of those same people, that's all we've [they've] got. And always remember that stranger things have happened at sea. I read somewhere that some man--in Australia here I think--who was given the wrong blood type [when he was given a blood transfusion] actually changed his own blood type by a quirk of nature, and since then his blood has been in demand at the Red Cross Bloodbank c'OZ' it has special properties that they can't get enough of. Since then, I believe a few other people around the gobe have also changed their blood type. Phenomenal!

Don't worry, I can see that sneaky vigil trying to make a bold exit, stage left, behind my back, but I've got it sorted, don't fret! It's very dark backstage these days since I've pulled the plug............=

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It's well reported that every drug has a known side effect[s], yet not all people taking exactly the same drug, in exactly the same dosage, for the exact same length of time, report having the declared side effects, or any new side effects that may arise in certain other people. Some people have allergic reactions to many different things, drugs included. Even to placebos! I think that there's some, possibly many, pregnant women who could take Bendectin till the cows came home and have no problem with it, yet others, who may only take it for a very short while will have much problem with it indeed. Then of course, there's bad batches of otherwise safe drugs/serums that have been released onto the market causing damage before they're pulled, or in some cases, not pulled at all until stocks run out. Some serums were found to have not been kept at the right temperature prior to their innoculation etc., and when administered, caused much damage, but not necessarily in all recipients. I personally think that certain drugs, not unlike Bendectin, are directly responsible for many deformities, inter alia, of myriad kinds, but not all deformities, or all other problems.

I would be very interested to know if 'every' [yes, every] expectant mother who took thalidomide produced a deformed baby. I could be wrong but I don't think they did.

If it's known proved beyond all reasonable doubt, and accepted, that all of them who took thalidomide didn't have a deformed child then what does that tell us? If the number of women who took thalidomide--but had no problem--is high, [but not necessarily greater than those who took it and had the babies with, in some cases, severe deformities] can we really rule one way or another that a certain drug does or doesn't cause abnormalities right across the board. No, of course we can't. Many decisions in this world are merely abitrarily imposed. It's exactly the same as in a court of law where the judge tells the jury of twelve [12] persons that he/she, the judge, can accept ten [10] against two [2] in order that the matter may be dealt with and put to bed, but this doesn't make it, the finding of the court, right or wrong. It just provides the opportunity for future cases to step up to the plate, and take their chance at having a swing at the already swinging-back-and-forth scales of justice. So in effect, the jury's really always out in perpetuity, but the judge makes a finding that he/she is permitted to do under the rule of law. But many times they [the judges] mess up, case in point, the well-known song: "That's the night that the lights went out in Georgia!" This is why we have, in some countries, many avenues of appeal through the courts, and it's proved very necessary that we have them too, c'OZ' many trials have been bungled and biased beyond compare, and the situation ain't about to differ anytime soon, so don't hold your breath, whether you've got halitosis or not, but do hold out hope, c'OZ' there's many of us that do, and for many of those same people, that's all we've [they've] got. And always remember that stranger things have happened at sea. I read somewhere that some man--in Australia here I think--who was given the wrong blood type [when he was given a blood transfusion] actually changed his own blood type by a quirk of nature, and since then his blood has been in demand at the Red Cross Bloodbank c'OZ' it has special properties that they can't get enough of. Since then, I believe a few other people around the gobe have also changed their blood type. Phenomenal!

Don't worry, I can see that sneaky vigil trying to make a bold exit, stage left, behind my back, but I've got it sorted, don't fret! It's very dark backstage these days since I've pulled the plug............=

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ILP - many women took thalomide and had children without birth defects, but the preponderance of evidence showed without doubt that the drug does cause increased rate of said effects. Likewise many people smoke cigarettes until they die in a car accident after their 100th birthday, but we wouldn't conclude that cigarettes aren't harmful. While it is certainly true that a given side effect or harmful effect may only be experienced by a small percentage of people, that is why it's important to understand statistics (damn statistics) and study design. If an outcome only occurs 2-3% of the time then it wouldn’t be out of the realm of statistical possibility (in fact statistically expected) that if you studied it only 50-100 times that event might only happen once or even not all. As you increase the number of times (1000, 10,000) then you would expect that roughly 3% of the time you would be able to demonstrate the effect. Hence a study needs to be sufficiently “powered†to conclude reasonably that in fact we can accept the event doesn’t occur (or occurs at an acceptable rate, whatever that may be).

So when Betty Jill concludes that bendictin is the cause of her son’s asperger’s syndrome since she was the only one of 14 siblings who took the drug, she ignores the fact that asperger’s is estimated to occur at a rate of about 0.05-4.5 times per 1000 births. So it is entirely likely that in her family of 14 siblings she would be the only one to have a child with asperger’s. In fact, unless she and her siblings had several hundred to 1000 children between them, it would be surprising if there were more than one child with the disease. What Betty Jill also ignores is that it asperger’s, while clearly still not well understood, does appear to have a genetic component. Presumably the father of Betty Jill’s children did not father the children of her siblings, so the most obvious confounding factor in drawing the conclusion of cause is the genetic make-up, despite the claim that there was “NOTHING ELSE†(Betty Jill’s all caps, not mine). And again, asperger’s has not become less common since bendictin was pulled (in fact becoming more common). What are we to tell all the parents of children with asperger’s who did not take bendictin? Interestingly, there is now some evidence that asperger’s occurs at a higher rate among more educated, more “intelligent†parents. I guess my children are just lucky that I’m a dumb ‘ol doc, as suggested by some postings on this site (or worse yet, an accomplice of a drug company – which one I’m not certain, since bendictin is off the market). Teaching is an honorable career (music and otherwise), and I, for one never suggested otherwise. Rather Betty Jill suggested that my motivation was somehow nefarioius when I would contend otherwise

Alexa makes an analogy with propoxyphene, an interesting comparison since the data did show an adverse outcome associated with that medication unlike the studies on bendictin. Obviously the suggestion is that if it (delayed findings) happened with one, why not others? True enough, the slippery slope cannot be denied. If I bit into an apple today and there was a worm in it, might there not be a worm in the next and the next? Should I eschew all apples hence forth (I’m certain my choice of an apple a day won’t be lost on ILP, but I’m not sure if it will qualify for the “million-dollar vocabulary†or even “brilliant command of the English languageâ€. I could only hope that those barbs were intended for me, though I easily concede to ILP’s ability to turn a phrase). That’s what makes bendictin so interesting. It was studied multiple times in all kinds of ways. Not just the early study required for FDA approval, but subsequent comparisons of before and after it was on the market. To be certain, as I’ve said before, if you don’t seek you won’t find. So the adverse cardiac electrical conduction associated with propoxyphene may not have been apparent without looking, but that doesn’t mean all bad things are due to propoxyphene. More power to the seekers of truth. Just try not to mix up anecdotal experience with evidence.

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emtridoc, very good post! Yes, statistics [like triage, not forgetting that encumbrances are known to come in 3's] are important, but they're so easily skewed, and it all comes down to what's acceptable and what's not. We mustn't forget, too, that neonates are easily switched to the wrong parents, deliberately or otherwise, so that'd throw a big spanner into any research work if gone undiscovered. It's easier now to uncover switches per DNA but its utility wasn't always available. The DNA process isn't infallible either simply because we must trust what the analysts state in their reports, and different DNA experts will even vehemently disagree with each other.

I note too that your FDA was not enamoured at all with our CSL company here in OZ. I think it involved inadequate inventory etc which is strange considering that nowadays we've got computerisation's assistance.

I wonder how many switched babies [not legally adopted] with later-surfacing abnormalities were taken home and reared by mums that were never prescribed anti-emetics, and they never suspected any anomaly re parentage. People might think that this is highly unlikely but many deformed and disabled children are willingly adopted by childless couples who'll fork out very large amounts of money and effort if necessary for the joy of a child. Plus the fact that some births [both stillborn and liveborn] are never recorded, and then there's designer babies and any culling involved therefrom per abortions etc. If all current statistics are considered to be true and accurate, then the figures recorded can't ever be any less, but they can be a whole lot more! And that's statistic's Achilles Heel.

If a person knows exactly what someone else is looking for, plus exactly where it's situated, it's so easily hidden from them in advance, or better still replaced with something else that'll lead to a more favourable outcome for the switche'roo_ster, and of course, people like William MacBride et al. would've made it quite clear to all and sundry exactly what was being placed under the monstrous microscope. I'm sure you know how easy it is to obscure something. When we see how easily a magician does things whilst he/she is under intense scrutiny and he/she does sometimes declare beforehand exacly what they're about to do, and we all still miss their legerdemain, and we know it's impossible what they've done, but can't prove otherwise c'OZ' we saw it with our own eyes.

How dedicated were Sandy's [#207] study-researchers in Toronto if they didn't follow up with an at least scant report to her and her son, or any further inquiry as to whether any new problems had surfaced in the meantime?

Let us focus on pecuniary interests for a moment, and not just immediate pecuniary interests, because like life, businesses like to carry on for quite a while too: If a pharmaceutical company [for example] was absolutely confident that one or several of their products didn't and couldn't have caused a serious problem like teratogenicity, then why take it off the market? To do so might prove that the particular drug was responsible for the problems if they suddenly lessened dramatically. Far better for them to keep selling the brand but alter its composition to something approaching that of [but not actually] a placebo. Product brands are worth zillions in some cases but hardly ever worth more than a company's name and goodwill. To pull a product is an act surely never done lightly. Pulling a product could in fact be more disadvantageous in the long run. I think I've mentioned before that thalidomide was still being sold [up to only a few years ago at least] in 3rd world countries to combat Hansen's disease [leprosy].

Returning to what's acceptable and what's not, I believe that, like many things in life, anti-emetics are necessary in some cases to sustain all-important life, and if there's a chance, slight or great, that they'll cause abnormalities, then so be it as far as the authorities are concerned. I don't blame anyone for adhering to that principle iff[sic] lives are on the line but anything less would be iffy indeed. Plus there's many situations where a person, be they an experienced medico or not, just doesn't know for sure if a prescription is really required. I well remember hearing stories about how an antivenene was just as dangerous as the snake's venom and therefore was only administered as a last resort if the victim [alright, patient] looked like they were going to bite the dust! Believe it or not, a father [a herpetologist I think] here in Australia has been charged for allowing his daughter to be bitten several times by a Taipan, the deadliest snake in the world! The things we do!

Looks like tongue-in-cheek time's come round again: "For millions of Americans, each week becomes a stressful triage between work and home that leaves them feeling guilty, exhausted.......and angry" [Jill Smolowe]. (The ellipsis is mine c'OZ' some people are quite averse to using the odd Oxford [alright, Harvard] Comma here and there. That's my excuse--for its insertion--and I'm sticking to it!) I wonder if it's an offence to be a, ummm, serial comma user?

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