Watson Lortab Formula Change (Page 9)

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Does anyone know what Watson did or why they changed their formula for Lortab 10/500? It used to be blue and when I picked up my refill today they are now white. I still have a few days of my blue left but I swapped a few so I can try the white. I'm waiting for it to start working and I took it over 2 hours ago. My rx is 1-2 every 3 hours not to exceed 7 in a day. (my pm dr wants me on a stronger med but anything above hydrocodone makes me euphoric and I can't function) The blue color lortab starts to work within 15 mins. I took my first white color lortab 2 hours ago, waited an hour and took the 2nd and nothing. I will wait 30 mins longer and switch back to the blue until I run out. This sucks. I'm a full time law student, disabled, single mom and can't use my dominate arm because the pain level is too high. (My shoulder dislocates every time I move my arm, even after 3 surgeries the last one being a bone transplant to the shoulder.) Sorry about any typos, I am typing with my left hand and don't have the coordination in this arm/hand that I do with my right. Thank you for any information that you can provide me.

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161

Hello again all - & a new hello to those who have dropped in with their comments since I last posted mine. I first want to apologize because in my last post I said I would get back on here to let y'all know how things went on the next dr visit & if I could find an alternative to the dread worthless Norcos (might as well be fricken M&Ms as far as I'm concerned.) I have been trying to get back on here but my cell is a pain to type on even with swype, and my laptop is a beastly thing that weighs a metric ton - I have torn ligaments/tendons & tendonitis in my arm, not to mention pain from Lupus, Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ITP (they say it doesn't cause pain but the excessive bleeding can & does cause pain & fatigue) & herniated disks in my back making it difficult to even lift this laptop and type for prolonged periods of time.

So thats a rehash of my conditions (well not all - I am also dealing w Bell's Palsy and ungodly amounts of pain from broken teeth from years of too many prescribed corticosteroid treatments. (NOT meth, ewww, gross, but of course thats what people think of me when I open my mouth - despite the many thousands spent on crowns, bridges, partials spacers, extractions, fillings, dry mouth gels/rinses, etc. I am in my 30s, single, and likely to remain that way as lets face it, no one wants to kiss someone with a mouthful of rotten/missing teeth lost from years of taking poisons like prednisone and chemo from doctors oblivious to the dangers of prolonged high-dose usage. The treatments were often worse than the disease itself anyways, & rarely ever helped. When my conditions got so bad that I had to quit working & pursuing goals I had worked a lifetime toward, I went on disability and fell into a downward spiral of poverty and debt that keeps me enslaved and unable to afford treatments/surgeries I know could help me get a quality of life back.

I do not date. I do not work. I do not see my friends. I rarely ever talk to maybe just 1 or 2 friends every 3-6 months or so. I do not see my family. I haven't seen my own 91 year old grandmother in nearly 2 years because life on SSI disability keeps me too poor to afford to fix my car and register it so I can go see her. I can't even drive myself to the doctor because the Bell's Palsy effected my vision, and I haven't been able to afford car registration. The only way I can even get to the doctor is at the mercy of a friend of my mom's who takes pity on me. I have lost any and all semblance of independence. I am incredibly lonely but I hate to be seen because of the assumptions people make of me due to my teeth (or lack thereof now.) I can't even afford dentures (again I'm only in my 30s and I've had probably about $40K worth of dental work done over the years already! The prednisone just destroyed all that worked in less than 3 short years.

Oh and I love to cook too. Sometimes I cook things just to do it and smell it, even though I couldn't possible chew it. Sometimes I try to let it sit in some kind of sauce and get soggy and swallow it down, oh what I wouldn't give for dental implants and a SOLID meal!

Basically...

I am living in HELL.Correction - "existing", as no one could consider this "living".

If I don't get something done about my teeth I will likely die sooner than later from the infections and absesses, and there really isn't anyone who will help me in any way, and very few left in my life who would even mourn my passing.

I am the crux of the Fallen who dwell between the forgotten cracks of bureaucratic "herd-culling" and systematic soul-harvesting. Disease grips you, but the destruction it heaps onto your body is like a skinned knee compared to the Red Tape 3-Ring Circus of health insurance loops, hoops to jump and hope-shattering denials that whittle away at your spirit while the disease ravages your stress--weakened body. Then your landlords, business associates, bank, so-called friends and family take everything you ever worked for, putting you in so much financial debt and leaving you so emotionally bankrupt you fear you will never see the light of day again. You start to miss things you hated, like standing in line at the DMV, driving in rush hour on the 405 to the airport. Simple pleasures like laying down in your own bed - or any bed for that matter - taking a drive and listening to music - laying on the couch or sitting in your favorite chair watching tv or reading a book - simple pleasures seem as far away and unattainable as the top of Mt. Everest, or a star on the Walk of Fame.

Life after losing everything and everyone dear to me - or losing the ability to be around the few people who didn't abandon me when things got rough - has been a constant torture.

First thought in the morning is OH DEAR GOD WHY AM I IN SO MUCH PAIN??? WAS I IN AN ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING?!?!?! Last thought before I fall asleep in the broken chair in someone's living room (because I cant afford anything else on SSI) is WHY GOD DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME??? I have always tried to be a good person. I have always done unto others as I'd have done unto me. I have done good deeds my whole life. I have fought passionately for causes I believed in. I have organized foundations and charity events and toy drives for those in need. I am not a saint but I do not feel I deserve this accursed, painful existence.

With the pain meds, I could manage ok most of the time.

Without the pain meds that I need (I have taken VICODIN HP for 13+ years but was prescribed LORCET/LORTAB before and it did help a lot as well.) - life is becoming increasingly harder to bear, and I still have some living I need to do dammit!

Oh dear me. I'm so sorry for the Pity Party of 1 here, I know we're all hurting, wah wah woes me. I know my pain isnt special or significant or any worse than anyone else. I am just very, very much alone in the world, regrettably so considering a few years ago I had more "friends" than I could keep in touch with, and was getting to know parts of my family for the first time. But people get really funny when ya get ill, and then they get really gone.If you've stuck this far here's the helpful bits (I may have to post this twice so it gets read!)

Ok - so here's the best advice I can give: SCREW NORCO!!!! Do NOT believe your doctors and pharmacists when they say its the only hydrocodone pain reliever available on the market- its NOT! (C'MON FOLKS! Do y'all really think the entire pharm industry is gonna slaughter their best selling cash cows? I THINK NOT.)

Ask your dr to prescribe the reformulated VICODIN HP. Its the closest you're gonna get to the old Vicodin/Lortab/Lorcet for now. (Until ZoHyDro comes out, & people who have a horse in the race are trying awfully hard to thwart that before it even comes out (ie the "addiction specialists", the Masochists who have turned addiction into a multi-billion dollar industry running these BS rehab clinics where they just hand out Suboxone & mud massages at $30K a month - see ya again in a couple months! Their ignorant non-medically based hippy-dippy luxory spa facilities and practices actually promote addiction and kill people quicker than the drugs do! Ive lost several friends fresh out of rehab - 1 only 24 hours in! But i digress..)

I fully believe that dr's need to be judicious and cautious about what they prescribe, how much and to whom. All of us here have legitmate pain & disease, but it does no favors to bury heads in the sand about the problem of addiction. Like I said, I've got a few friends who have their heads buried in the sand - as well as the rest of them - 6 ft under. I have shed rivers of tears I thought would never run dry for those I've lost. But I'm going to be totally honest here, at the risk of sounding callous- they were addicts, they played with fire and it eventually consumed all that they were. Many of them were dead long before they were ever pronounced so by a coroner. I miss my friends, I'll always love them, but they made stupid decisions, thought they were infallible, immortal, they took far too much of their drug of choice and it eventually took them down in exchange. In nearly every overdose case I have known of, the death was the result of MIXING MULTIPLE DRUGS, usually some combo of hydrocodone and oxycodone, sedatives like Valium, Klonopin or Xanax, lots of wine and or whiskey, usually coke, often antidepressents like Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac et al, & very often cough meds like Tussin w Codeine. (I should point out I worked in the music industry a very long time, and lived in Hollywood, so I've seen a lot of talented people come ago. I met Michael Jackson less than 3 months before he died. His doctors did him an injustice. He shouldn't have had to pay for it with his life. AND WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THESE DOCTORS AND CELEBRITIES BAD CHOICES AND MISTAKES WITH OUR QUALITY OF LIFE!!!!!!

I only brought up the addiction thing because it is the ONLY argument keeping us from our medicine that allows us to FUNCTION! Oh, well, that and the liver argument - which frankly I think is largely a crock o' crap. I have taken Vicodin at high doses for well over a decade and nary a problem with my liver there be! When I realized that my pain was going to be a chronic issue, I made the decision to stop social drinking all together. (Being in the industry, my social outtings were often also work related, so I always made sure to keep sharp. That & I was usually always the driver, I have ALWAYS taken care not to drink and drive, I've lost a cousin and friends to drunk drivers. So I don't mess around with that. But when it became clear the meds were gonna be a part of my life til I found a magical healing pool of water to be baptized in, I made the conscious choice to cut out alcohol, save for maybe a small glass of champagne on New Year's, maaaaaaybe 1 - margarita or beer on my birthday. So its great that the FDA is suddenly all concerned about our livers, but for those of us who's livers are working great, BACK OFF! Save the Norco for the drinkers or those with liver problems.

I always found Norco to be a worthless drug. Granted I've taken some brands that worked better than others, but in general one HALF a Vic-HP, Lorcet or Lortab worked better than taking 2 Norcos at once! But I also know many people with chronic pain from Fibro, Arthritis, back injuries, hip and knee replacements, etc & so on, who took Norco and it worked fine for them - til all this reformulation stuff started. (And the Norco allegedly hasn't been reformulated since it always contained 325mg of acetaminophen which is now the new max. But if this is true, THEN WHY ARE ALL THE NORCO PATIENTS COMPLAINING ABOUT LACK OF PAIN RELIEF TOO?!?! Hmmm?? oO)

My guess is the FDA has done something to ALL OF IT. I dunno what or why. My best theory - conspiracy though it may be - the legislators & doctors spearheading the campaigns to stop ZohydroER (the new extended release Hydrocodone equivalent of Oxycontin) all have some things in common. You can do your own research an astute observation will point these things out. I'll give you one - most of them are alleged "addiction specialists", the people making BANK off of convincing people taking the prescribed amount of a medication daily is addiction - & offering high priced luxury spa treatments instead of any actual medical or psychological counseling for addiction. These folks LOVE to dole out Suboxone - the 21st century methadone that costs about $300-$400 without insurance and has withdrawals worse than H (which is about $20-$40 by way of comparison. See the picture starting to take shape here?)

I've even heard rumour (on here if you dig back about 50 or so replies) that SOME of the Pharm manufacturers are actually BINDING the new Norcos with an opiate blocker! Now that sounds like crazy talk, especially considering the EXTREME health risks of taking narcotic meds and opioid blockers together. But unless you get the little printout that's attached to the manufacturer bottles that shows the little chemical diagram & lists the inactive ingredients, I guess its not outside the realm of possibility.

**Note - I DID get the little printout with the chemical compound for the newly reformulated generic of Vicodin-HP (10mg of hydrocodone/300 of acetaminophen) from Boca Pharmaceuticals and it did not list any nefarious or questionable ingredients.

This drug is the closest I have found to the pain relief I was getting from the original 10/660 Vicodin HP or the 10/650 of Lorcet or the 10/500 of Lortab.

Even though it seems like less medicine - I SWEAR IT WORKS BETTER THAN THE NORCOS! You can always take an extra tylenol or half of one, which defeats the FDA's alleged liver-saving purposes, but just be careful and keep within the guidelines.

**(sub)NOTE: Many pharmacists will tell you that Vicodin HP no longer exist. They swear Norco is the only hydrodone/acetaminophen combo drug on the market now. B^%$#O#%!!!! If you have your doctor write "Vicodin Hp - 10/300" or even "Hydrocodone 10mg/Acetaminophen 300) the pharmacist suddenly produces it.

***(PostSubNOTE) Many pharmacists will also tell you that NAME BRAND VICODIN HP does not exist. They swear that it does not - that is until your doctor writes you a rx stating DO NOT SUBSTITUTE WITH GENERIC. BAM! Suddenly the name brand from ABBOTT LABS avails itself.

***HOWEVER****

It is my perseverance and that of others I know who have had it that the name brand ABBOTT Vicodin HP for some reason DOES NOT WORK AS WELL as the generic Vicodin HP from BOCA pharmacies (I'm not sure how many other generics exist if any, this is all i've found thus far). I have no explaination for this, other than that I haven't seen Abbott's little chemical diagram and inactive ingredient list, but I still have a hard time believing a drug co would mix opiates w opiate blockers as its highly DANGEROUS.

So, sorry for spilling my hard life story. I hope you made it to the helpful bits. I want to add that my dr also has me taking Percocet 5/325 in addition to the Vicodin HP 10/300. I am still in pain most all of the time. Some days are better than others. I am NOT a drug addict, and I do not feel that I nor anyone here should have to pay for the mistakes made by those who abuse medications. I also don't think doctors should hand out meds like candy to everyone who walks in the door with a hangnail or slight ache. I am a Middle Bear kind of gal, I see both sides I think a happy medium can exist between patients suffering in pain because of addicts' actions, and the Dr. Feelgood's and Mr. Brownstones who turn people into addicts in the first place. The pain is NOT in our heads. The CHANGE in the new meds is NOT in our HEADS. The pain is in our LIVES. We are not addicts, we are PEOPLE made up of flesh and blood and bone and muscle and ligament and tendon - and those bits that make up our physical being is where the PAIN exists. Chronic pain can feel so consuming, it seems at times like you were forged from pain itself. Why on earth would doctors or the FDA deny people who feel like this a little bit of relief??? Their actions are destroying lives! Please just let us have our pain medication! Deal with the idiot celebutantes and Richie Rich thrill seekers as you come across them. Don't you know, the harder you make something to acquire, the more the spoiled rich brats HAVE to have it! FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS! I'm sorry but if you abuse meds or take 200 pills in a day and carelessly mix meds, alcohol and street drugs and end up dead- well, you kinda brought it upon yourself! WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUFFER FOR THE BAD DECISIONS OF A FEW IRRESPONSIBLE PARTY ANIMALS WHO LIVE FAST AND DIE YOUNG, AND GREET EACH DAY LIKE IT WERE A BACCHANALIA!!!

*deep breath* Forgive my long-winded tyrade but haven't we all just had quite enough of this crap?!?!

Wishing blessings and sending all the positive healing I can muster to spare to each and every one of you all.

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162

Don't let these pharmacists and doctors fool you into thinking NORCO is the only thing that exists for pain relief in the hydrocodone family of meds. They deny that Vicodin and Vicodin HP (which is pretty close to LORCET & LORTAB) still exist - that is til you come in with a RX! Ask your doctors to write you a RX for the Reformulated Vicodin HP = or simply have him/her write it for hydrocodone 10mg/acetaminophen 300. It works WAY better than the crappy Norcos, and its actually less Tylenol so they can't use THAT excuse.

***Note*** For some reason I've found (and discussed with others who agree) that the generic Vicodin HP made by Boca Pharmaceuticals works BETTER than the name brand Vicodin HP made by Abbott Pharmaceuticals.

My doctor still has had to add Percocet 5/325 to my daily meds in addition to the Vic-HP 10/300 as the new ones just aren't strong enough for all my pains. But the reformulated HP works FAR better than the Norcos.

Good luck everybody! May the Force Be With You!
I hope this helps some of you.

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163

There is definetely a change in Lortabs. They are called Norcos now do NOT bring the same pain relief as Lortabs did. I asked and they said it is only the Tylenol that has been cut in half. I simply check to make sure how much I take of that a day and add 2 tylenols along with the 10mg of Norco. You DO have to be very careful of the amount of tylenols you take in a days time, due to liver problems. However, even with adding 2 tylenols, the pain relief is still not the same. I'm going to ask to try the new Hydrocone that has now been approved by the FDA.

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164

I heard that they are taking hydrocodone off the market. Did anyone hear about that?

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165

They reformulated loratab to 10/325 now because of the acetaminophen which is
Tylenol eating our liver. Take 1tylenol with your med and it works the same as before.

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166

To: tin foil hat time You are spot on! would like to talk to you more about everything especially the prednisone crap if u post something back here I will be notified on my email address I have been trying to get my PMgt to change something back or something new since the tabs 10/500 are gone I was told it was the tylenol that affected the liver (according to them my liver is OK) so if tylenol is that bad...why can you still buy all the tylenol you want Over the counter....I just wanna be out of this pain! 67 yr old female with PPS.

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167

Nanno -I'd be glad to talk. At drs now will reply this evening from reg laptop. PS - the reformulated Vi CV odin HP are hands down better than the Norco, closest thing we're going to find it seems!

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168

{edited for privacy} I'm just interested in trying to get my dr to change me off those narcos and I want to know what I'm talking about when I ask for something!! thanks

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169

well l tried to send you my email address but it was edited out I just wanted to talk with you one on one without going through watson chat.

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170

The Lortab 10/325 are what is given now. They do come in white but they also come in yellow. Where the 7.5/325 come in peach if not white.
As a nurse I know they are the same no matter the color but watching my patients and people I know personally makes me question. Why the blue dye is taken out but not the others? Why is there not the same relief in pain? Some of my patients have no idea of the color change and yet they have the same complaint.

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171

they can't get the opiod like before.if you read the news, there is war in afganistan getting the opiod.

the afganistand people know that america are desperate for them,and they are killing people before they get to them.

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172

I have MS and my problem is they changed the formula for lortabs period. I take mine 4 times a day and its now 10/325 so now instead of 4 a day I take about 7. They really messed up by changing the formula, because they really don't work as well as they used to!!! But in order for me to get a stronger pain med I'll have to go to a pain dr. and I don't want to I wanna stay with my neurologist!!!! The fda really messed up this time!!!!!

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173

The fda are the ones who r n control of our meds.now they will only allow 4/ 10/325 of hydrocodone,(lortab,or norco to b given.ive never seen a 10/325 lortab only hydrocodone.y does the f d a prefer morphine(whitch doesent work for me)over hydro.it takes 40000 mg of acetemitaphine to cause liver damage.do ur research.it makes no sence.i think someone is in with the pharm companies.y else such dradtic changes in law?now i hurt all time.id rather b dead.

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174

That's EXACTLY what my Dr said as well ("just take a Tylenol with it & its thesame as the 10/500 I've been on for over 14yrs")....except its NOT! These are like s***, I find myself taking doses closer together due to the pain, these are so super weak, you really do require extra doses for some relief, which is bad cuz your out of em faster. What REALLY trips me out is how they were 10/500 right?...ok now they're 10/325 which is a decrease of 175mg Tylenol right? Ok so NOW I got a Dr that tells me "just take 1 Tylenol to get the same effect" yet over the counter Tylenols are 325mg for ONE pill. So basically I'm intaking a total of 650mg Tylenol vs. the 500mg I was originally taking so in all rights, its like the Dr's &/or pharmacutical comp are trying to kill usv(or at least cause liver damage which causes severe pains requiring to need these so called "pain relief pills" this is all just a vicious cycle & were the unfortunate ginnypigs suffering while lining all those "fatcats'" pockets. Smh, its a crying shame how this country cares for us or lack thereof! Good luck to all you guys on these meds, my heartgoes out to you, your not alone. God bless.

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175

It's the pharmacies, not the manufacturers. Pharmacies are looking for higher profit so they are selecting lower quality meds at the risk of their customers. Believe me, what we use to get is still being made. Everyone should write to the Board of Directors of their pharmacies and complain. I encourage writing and putting the pressure back on them. It's not us, it's them bottom line.....

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176

On top of the change, it's now been moved to a schedule 2 medication.. Meaning you can no longer have refills on them. Also meaning we'll have to go to the doctor more often to get prescriptions written. Everything I read was about people abusing Meds... So they change the rules and hurt the people who actually need them.. Even though the new medicine doesn't help as much. Anyone find a new one that helps better?

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177

I've always had to make monthly doctors appointments. I've never had refills for Norco. So after this many years, it is something I'm already use to.

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178

Not Pharmacy . It is the dea &governor.please ask ur doctor.do your research.

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179

If everyone googled fda u can see there email &phone no.bombard them with emails &phone calls.let them know what they r doing to us.

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180

I'm currently without insurance. I need help paying for my meds. Please.

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